[Question #10613] HIV or Another STI Still Possible?
21 months ago
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Hi doctor, as you know over the past +1 year Ive been tested regularly for STIs and trying to figure out what is causing my symtpoms given that after the exposure I havent feel healthy for a while.
I know HIV is should be out of the question because of my test results, but Im still worrying I may have gotten a false negative results, and maybe my one and only “false positive” Antigen P24 test was actually correct.
I’m not in general a doctors person but for the last 1 year I cannot keep myself out of a doctors office due to health complications.
1) My rheumatologist did the HLA B27 test among with other tests and all came back negative. Is there a possibility that I may still be suffering from ReA causing my pains? Now Im having extreme back pain and need to visit an orthopedist.
2) For the past few weeks I have been experiencing bleeding cuts and scabs in my nose that does not heal no matter what I do (and without prickling my nose). This has never happened to me before and Ive seen in numerous webstites that high levels of IgE (mine is at 180) and bleeding such as this is a normal situation for HIV + patients. Could this be my case?
3) Im worry that the labs in my country are not as reliable as they should be and thats why Im not getting the right results. I live in a 3rd world country
4) Right now Im taking 5mg of prednisone daily by pills and some more through nasal spray, how much could this affect my HIV test results if I seek to retest? Ive seen some of your answers in this forum stating that steroid like this could actually interfere with HIV antibodies and testing. In case of retesting it would most probably be a only antibodies test.
5) Ive seen in this forum that urine tests could fail to diagnose up to 5% of Gono and Chlamydia infections. How can I rule this out?
21 months ago
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Just to clarify I did go to my ENT for this nasal issues. Now need to visit orthopedist for disabiliting back pain that is right now “under control” with muscle relaxants and pain killers.
All this kind of normal situations that most of the time go away on its own but now Im in need to visit a doctor for each one of them. Never suffered before from cuts and scabs on nose that wont heal by themselves, not even after cauterization of blood vessels.
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Edward W. Hook M.D.
21 months ago
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Welcome back to our Forum although I'm sorry you felt the need. On this occasion I happened to pick up your follow-up questions. In preparing to respond I reviewed your earlier interaction with Dr. Handsfield and agree with all that he said. In reading your past interaction, it also appears that your concerns are in part fueled by the internet. I urge you to stay of the internet. The content there is often misleading. The internet is unedited and as a result much of what is there is out of date, taken out of context, overblown or just plain wrong.
In response to your new questions:
1. Some persons with reactive arthritis are not HLA B-27 positive. I agree with Dr. Handsfield that your symptoms are most likely coincidental and only marginally suggestive of reactive arthritis. I suspect your rheumatologist said much the same thing. I also worry that you are now seeing an orthopedist. Somethings if you ask the same question of enough people you will find someone willing to provide unwarranted and potentially harmful interventions which are not needed. Did your rheumatologist refer you to the orthopedist?
2. No. Your IgE is only marginally elevated and elevated IgE are non-specific and can be caused by many processes.
3. I cannot comment on the quality of the laboratories where you have been tested however, in my experience most lower income nations have good, high quality laboratory services available.
4. Taking low dose prednisone (5 mg is low dose) would not effect your test results. In theory and on occasion, taking prednisone can delay antibody formation but if you were infected more than a year ago by the interaction you described to Dr. Handsfield, your would already have antibodies which would show up in your test. Further, prednisone would have NO impact on the presence of p24 antigen which is also tested for in most combination HIV tests.
5. You indicated you have had multiple tests, including swab tests. While a single urine specimen may infection in a single urine specimen, this is virtually never a problem with multiple tests, particularly if some of them have been swab tests.
I hope this additional information and perspective is helpful. I agree with Dr. Handsfield when he said " It seems pretty clear that you are linking a sexual experience with very nonspecific symptoms that in fact have nothing to do with that event. Probably 90% of all humans have some or all these symptoms at one time or another. None sound serious. Most important, the combination of low risk at the time, absence of symptoms typical of any STD (almost all of which would have shown up within a couple of weeks, not months or years later), and your negative test results are conclusive evidence against any infection from the sexual exposure on your mind." EWH
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21 months ago
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Hi doctor. Thanks for your answers.
Im still worried about my symptoms.
1) What could cause a stinging pain in my left toe whenever a pee? Thats pretty weird
2) What do you think about the constant cuts and scans on my nose that wont heal naturally? That has never happened to me and Ive been seeing that HIV is something that could cause it. My ENT said it was allergic rhinitis (that I see is commong on HIV+) and FYI my Ige levels have been higher this year reaching +180
3) I took an influenza shot about a month ago, could that affect any HIV test causing a false positive or negative result?
4) What would a HIV+ person be experiencing 1 year and 8 months post exposure without any treatment?
5) Like I said in my previous post a had a “false negative” Antigen P24 reaction (the cut off value was low 5.5 vs 3) and then negative confirmatory PCR and Western Blot tests (the P24 was negative on the WB). 3 months later I retested using a combo test and it was negative. It was 2 different labs and thats my worry. Do you think maybe the first P24 was actually real? Keep in mind this positive reaction was 1 year post exposure. Is it possible to have still P24 one year later?
6) My rheumatologist didtn refer me to an orthopedist, but finding myself now with a extremely painfuk back pain, I believe I have no option right? I just keep having to go to doctors frequently
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Edward W. Hook M.D.
21 months ago
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There is no logic to your continuing concerns. I worry that your continuing pursuit of an STI-related diagnosis will lead to a mis-diagnosis or unneeded therapy. I'll answer your continuing questions but will also remind you that after one more follow-up the thread will be concerned and, as per Forum policy, further repetitive, anxiety-driven questions may be closed without a response and without return of your posting fee. In my opinion, you need to address your concerns with a trained, confidential counselor.
1) What could cause a stinging pain in my left toe whenever a pee? Thats pretty weird.
I have never heard of this combination of symptoms in relationship to any STI.
---2) What do you think about the constant cuts and scans on my nose that wont heal naturally? That has never happened to me and Ive been seeing that HIV is something that could cause it. My ENT said it was allergic rhinitis (that I see is commong on HIV+) and FYI my Ige levels have been higher this year reaching +180.
You are seeing an ENT. He/she should be the one to ask this question. Most people with allergic rhinitis DO NOT have HIV.
3) I took an influenza shot about a month ago, could that affect any HIV test causing a false positive or negative result?
Your influenza vaccine would in no way effect the accuracy of your tests for HIV.
4) What would a HIV+ person be experiencing 1 year and 8 months post exposure without any treatment?
Such persons are most often asymptomatic and diagnosed only through testing, which you have had and which prove that you do not have HIV
5) Like I said in my previous post a had a “false negative” Antigen P24 reaction (the cut off value was low 5.5 vs 3) and then negative confirmatory PCR and Western Blot tests (the P24 was negative on the WB). 3 months later I retested using a combo test and it was negative. It was 2 different labs and thats my worry. Do you think maybe the first P24 was actually real? Keep in mind this positive reaction was 1 year post exposure. Is it possible to have still P24 one year later?
P24 antigen would typically remain positive in a person with untreated HIV a year following an expsoure. Antibody tests and PCR tests, would also be positive
6) My rheumatologist didtn refer me to an orthopedist, but finding myself now with a extremely painfuk back pain, I believe I have no option right? I just keep having to go to doctors frequently.
From what you have said, you have seen a rheumatologist, and ENT and are know planning to see an orthopedist. I suspect they are unaware that you are seeing these other health care providers. My advice would be to see a good generalist (i.e. internal medicine specialist), tell them ALL of your concerns and symptoms, and ask them to help sort them out and coordinate your care.
One follow-up remaining. EWH
21 months ago
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Thanks doctor.
1) From what I understood, prednisone can only affect initial antibody production, but cannot affect or reduce already present antibodies, right?
2) It was of my understanding that Antibodies clear out Antigen P24 and thats why the combo test is so reliable, one of the two will always be present. But now I see that both antibodies and antigen P24 could co exist up until 1 year post exposure? My doctors answers at that moment was that theres no way P24 would be present one year post exposure. If it remains positive then my “false positive” test could have indeed been real positive?
3) None of the labs in my country use the ELISA method for HIV testing that I see is the gold standard right? The methods used here are QEIA (Combo Test) and CLIA (Antibody only test), do you know these? Are they reliable? Whats the difference?
4) What would be your final assesment towards my case regarding STIs and specially HIV? Do you think I should keep seeking/retesting for HIV or can I absolutely rule it out?
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Edward W. Hook M.D.
21 months ago
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As you know, this will be the final response as part of this thread. Should you post new questions which are about the concerns of your two recent interactions with Dr. Handsfield and me, your post may be closed without a response and without return of your posting fee. This policy is in place for the benefit of our clients, nothing more.
In reply to your newest questions:
1) From what I understood, prednisone can only affect initial antibody production, but cannot affect or reduce already present antibodies, right?
Correct
2) It was of my understanding that Antibodies clear out Antigen P24 and thats why the combo test is so reliable, one of the two will always be present. But now I see that both antibodies and antigen P24 could co exist up until 1 year post exposure? My doctors answers at that moment was that theres no way P24 would be present one year post exposure. If it remains positive then my “false positive” test could have indeed been real positive?
This is incorrect. The p24 antigen is a protein from the virus. If the virus is present, and it is always in HIV infected, untreated persons, either the antibody or the p24 antigen will be present. Much of the time both a present but, on occasion, there is sufficient antibody present that it completely binds the antigen making the p24 antigen undetectable. Once a person has HIV, either the virus (detected as p24 antigen or by PCR), antibodies to the virus, or some combination of the 3 will ALWAYS be present. From what you say, your false positive was subsequently proven to be falsely positive through additional testing.
3) None of the labs in my country use the ELISA method for HIV testing that I see is the gold standard right? The methods used here are QEIA (Combo Test) and CLIA (Antibody only test), do you know these? Are they reliable? Whats the difference?
These are highly reliable tests which perform just as well as ELISA tests for HIV
4) What would be your final assesment towards my case regarding STIs and specially HIV? Do you think I should keep seeking/retesting for HIV or can I absolutely rule it out?
Further testing for STIs, including HIV is a waste of time and resources. There is no medical or scientific reason for further testing.
This exchange is now over. I wish you the best and hope you can put your worries aside. EWH
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