[Question #10676] Follow up to #10655
20 months ago
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Hello Doctor,Last week my friend asked a question here about an exposure I had. Given your advice, I created a personal account and came here to ask some follow-up questions. As you suggested, my friend allowed me to use his cc for payment and is also here to do the translation because my english is very bad. You already know my exposure, and you also commented on the fact that my friends exposure was very similar. That is why I am here, because I knew how worried my friend was about his exposure some months ago, and I kinda was supporting him during that time. I'm way more anxious about STDs than him, and now I find myself here due to his advice. Let me tell you that he definetly learned a lot with you on this forum and he gave me great advice.
However, my worries are still here, and I will explain: After your advice a week and a half ago, I was prepared to move forward without worries. However, my anxiety got the best of me and my friend told me that maybe a test would calm me down. So, 27 days after my possible exposure, I did a 4th gen rapid determine fingerprick test that was negative. What got me worrying again was that 2 days after the test i developed something that I can only describe as a mild folliculitis on my abdominal area (on the left and right side of my belly button) in areas where I have stretch marks. Once again I consulted with my friend, and he told me that he learned here that a rash would never be the only symptom of HIV ARS and it would have to be coupled with sore throat, fever, etc. Also, he knows that I'm very hairy, I sweat a lot and that this folliculitis happen right after a session that I did at the gym, so that was most likely the cause. Furthermore, he let me know that this would be rather late for ARS that normally happens between 7-10 days after exposure. Me being me, still felt the need to go back for another rapid 4th gen test that was negative 2 days after this "rash" (31 days post exposure)
However, my worries are still here, and I will explain: After your advice a week and a half ago, I was prepared to move forward without worries. However, my anxiety got the best of me and my friend told me that maybe a test would calm me down. So, 27 days after my possible exposure, I did a 4th gen rapid determine fingerprick test that was negative. What got me worrying again was that 2 days after the test i developed something that I can only describe as a mild folliculitis on my abdominal area (on the left and right side of my belly button) in areas where I have stretch marks. Once again I consulted with my friend, and he told me that he learned here that a rash would never be the only symptom of HIV ARS and it would have to be coupled with sore throat, fever, etc. Also, he knows that I'm very hairy, I sweat a lot and that this folliculitis happen right after a session that I did at the gym, so that was most likely the cause. Furthermore, he let me know that this would be rather late for ARS that normally happens between 7-10 days after exposure. Me being me, still felt the need to go back for another rapid 4th gen test that was negative 2 days after this "rash" (31 days post exposure)
20 months ago
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My questions:
1- Can I believe this rapid 4th gen test? Are they as good as lab tests?
2- When is this test conclusive? Nurse at the testing center told me 3 months, but my friend said that you advise that all 4th gen is conclusive at 6 weeks.
3 - Do you think this rash/folliculitis could be HIV ARS? Is the timeline even right? I dont have any other symptoms and even this rash is going away already
4- Can I have symptoms and test negative with a 4th gen rapid test?
5 - If my results are to be believed, should I even proceed with further testing at a later point?
6 - What is the likelihood of my results changing if I were to test again taking into account my exposure?
7- Nurse told me that I had a 0 risk situation and that I shouldn't be worried, what is your advice?
Thank you so much
1- Can I believe this rapid 4th gen test? Are they as good as lab tests?
2- When is this test conclusive? Nurse at the testing center told me 3 months, but my friend said that you advise that all 4th gen is conclusive at 6 weeks.
3 - Do you think this rash/folliculitis could be HIV ARS? Is the timeline even right? I dont have any other symptoms and even this rash is going away already
4- Can I have symptoms and test negative with a 4th gen rapid test?
5 - If my results are to be believed, should I even proceed with further testing at a later point?
6 - What is the likelihood of my results changing if I were to test again taking into account my exposure?
7- Nurse told me that I had a 0 risk situation and that I shouldn't be worried, what is your advice?
Thank you so much
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H. Hunter Handsfield, MD
20 months ago
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Welcome back. Glad to see you're asking your own question now. However, I'm not sure I can help much. Clearly you have misunderstood the previous advice from the other discussions, both your own and your friend's: negative test results PROVE that any symptoms you have are not possibly due to HIV. Having had a negative test, nothing you describe after your negative test cannot possibly change our advice that you do not have HIV and need to look to other explanations for your symptoms. Your possible exposure(s) to HIV do not matter: whatever the risk at the time of those events, your tests show you were not infected. To your specific questions:
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1) Yes, the rapid HIV AgAb (4th generation) blood tests are just as accurate as the lab based tests.
2,6) These tests are conclusive 6 weeks after the last possible exposure. But for symptoms, they are conclusive at any time: it is not possible to have HIV symptoms and have negative test results. Some medical resources continue to advise 3 months, but that's just out of conservative philosophies: there has never been a case of HIV in which it took longer than 45 days. There is no possibility another test will show a different result.
3,4) No. Your test results prove that these and any other symptoms are not due to HIV.
7) I agree with the nurse.
I hope these replies settle your fears. Please do not ask me to confirm anything you have already asked -- there is no possibility my reply will change! If these irrational fears continue, you should consider professional mental health care.
Best wishes-- HHH, MD
20 months ago
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Thank you so much for your answer doctor, I just have a couple of follow questions and I will try not to be repetitive:
1- The last rapid 4th gen test I had was at 31 days not 45 days, but i take by your answer that I dont need to test again, is this correct?
2- Just out of curiosity, would you say that this (lets call it) folliculitis on my belly would not be ARS? I know by your answer that it cant be either way because of the negative test and the fact that i dont have anymore symptoms besides this, but is folliculitis common in the ARS or is it more of a rash? Is it local or body spread? By googling I found out that folliculitis is common in people with HIV, but maybe thats on a more advanced stage??
3- Lastly, you said that I didnt even need testing at all for an exposure that is vaginal protected and receiving oral sex (my penis in her mouth). Lets say you were in my situation, would you move forward without concern and with 100% certainty that you wouldnt have hiv?
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H. Hunter Handsfield, MD
20 months ago
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1. At 31 days, the AgAb tests probably detect around 99% of infections. Since the risk of HIV was extremely low, you can consider this result conclusive. But if emotionally you require a 100% conclusive test, you'll need to do it again 45 days or more after the event you are concerned about.
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2. Folliculitis occurs with increased frequency in advanced HIV infection but is never the only symptom of AIDS or ARS. The rash of ARS is nothing like folliculitis.
3. Yes: if somehow I were in your situation, I definitely would move forward without concern and with 100% confidence I was not infected with HIV.
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20 months ago
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Dear Dr HHH, I hope you are doing well.
First of all thank you for the advice that you gave me.
Since then I managed to control my anxiety a little bit, and I also followed your advice and went to have a 4th gen Abbot rapid fingerprick test at 50 days (7 weeks) post possible exposure. Like you predicted, it was negative.
I was ready to move forward but after searching the CDC website, they mention that these tests, even though they are ag/ab, have a 90 day Window period just like the the antibody only tests, which got me a little confused since you told me that they were just as good as the 4th gen lab tests that are conclusive at 6 weeks.
1- Can you please clarify why the CDC gives a 90 day window for these tests just so I can understand better the logic behind the guidelines?
2- Can I now consider myself 100% clear of HIV? Or would you recomend for me to pursue a lab based 4th gen test?
3- Would you say that to consider myself 100% clear I would need a test at 12 weeks or is further testing unecessary? Were I to test again further down the line, would my results change regarding this exposure?
4- In your opinion, is there any "next steps" I must take in order to move forward regarding testing or possible window periods?
Thank you so much for your patiente Doctor HHH, I appreciate all the work that both you and doctor Hook do in helping people, and I apologize if my questions are a bit repetitive.
First of all thank you for the advice that you gave me.
Since then I managed to control my anxiety a little bit, and I also followed your advice and went to have a 4th gen Abbot rapid fingerprick test at 50 days (7 weeks) post possible exposure. Like you predicted, it was negative.
I was ready to move forward but after searching the CDC website, they mention that these tests, even though they are ag/ab, have a 90 day Window period just like the the antibody only tests, which got me a little confused since you told me that they were just as good as the 4th gen lab tests that are conclusive at 6 weeks.
1- Can you please clarify why the CDC gives a 90 day window for these tests just so I can understand better the logic behind the guidelines?
2- Can I now consider myself 100% clear of HIV? Or would you recomend for me to pursue a lab based 4th gen test?
3- Would you say that to consider myself 100% clear I would need a test at 12 weeks or is further testing unecessary? Were I to test again further down the line, would my results change regarding this exposure?
4- In your opinion, is there any "next steps" I must take in order to move forward regarding testing or possible window periods?
Thank you so much for your patiente Doctor HHH, I appreciate all the work that both you and doctor Hook do in helping people, and I apologize if my questions are a bit repetitive.
20 months ago
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Ps: if you can, please let me know how I can donate to help the fight against HIV, thank you so much
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H. Hunter Handsfield, MD
20 months ago
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Sorry for the delayed response.
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1) I don't know what CDC information you found, but CDC in fact endorses 6 weeks (more precisely, 45 days) as conclusive for the HIV AgAb tests. The "logic" behind the guidelines is scientific. We base our advice on the first of these two links, a review of the performance of all available HIV blood tests (as of 3-4 yr ago); and the second, which is CDC's endorsement of that review: https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/29140890/ https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/29140891/
2,3) Yes, you can consider yourself 100% clear. However, some experts view the lab-based AgAb tests as the gold standard. You are free to have this test. From a medical/risk perspective, I do not believe it is necessary. But if you would gain more reassurance from the negative result, or course you are free to do it!
4) There are no necessary "next steps" unless you decide to have a lab-base AgAb test.
Perhaps you'll be interested to know that in the nearly 20 years of this and our preceding forum, with thousands of questions from persons worried about a possible HIV exposure, nobody has yet reported that they eventually tested positive. You will not be the first! If and when it finally happens, undoubtedly it will be from a legitimately high risk exposure.
Do your best to accept and believe the reasoned, science-based information you have had and move on without worry!
That concludes this thread. I hope the discussion has been helpful.