[Question #10716] Confused-listen to husband or scientific facts??

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20 months ago
I’m 64yo married for 31 years dated 4 years before marrying and we have a normal happy life. I found out in 2021 that my husband was getting body rubs due to corporate burn out all of 2020 up until July 2021. He said his depression was helped with the risk and danger the encounters brought. It got his mind out of a dark place. No sex ever happened, nor happy endings, no touching private parts. He was naked under a towel,  they are semi naked and some totally. No vagina, anal encounters. They sometimes got on his back and he on occasion got on their back to rub the shoulders.  I  just had my first EVER positive pap this year!!! I now have HPV 16,18,45. My GYN called me concerned because I have never had a positive and I had Hodgkins in 2000. Because she was so concerned I shared with her what I was dealing with. She said it had to be from these encounters because of the time frames.  I read a lot of questions and answers on here before presenting my question to see if anything was remotely like my situation. I understand it can lay dormant, but could it for 31 years?? He swears he did not have any sex, just body rubs, although he admitted to putting a condom on twice, nothing happened just the body rubs without touching private areas. Help me. I am so torn with his explanation and the wonderful knowledge you show on this forum. 
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Edward W. Hook M.D.
20 months ago
Welcome to our Forum.  Thanks for your questions.  I'm sorry for your dilemma and will do my best to provide some information but there are no good answers here.  Several observations/comments:

I'm not sure how your husband's body rubs came to light or whether they were with the same masseuses or several different partners.  It sounds however that you have been able to discuss these interactions and the ability to discuss things will be helpful in moving  forward.  As a generalization there are few data to suggest that receipt of massage regularly leads to HPV transmission. While in medicine we can never say never as new findings occur regularly, it would be unusual to acquire HPV, much less multiple strains from body rubs.

To go from a negative test (perhaps on multiple occasions) to detection of 3 different HPV types is highly unusual.  The sensitivity of different tests for HPV varies.  Is it possible that your doctor changed the test used in the interval between your tests?

We know that over 90% of sexually active persons will acquire HPV, often more than one strain, and that our host immune systems tend to control these infections, making them undetectable over 1-2 years following acquistion in most people.  Despite becoming undetectable, using sophisticated research tests, in many patients hidden HPV DNA can be found.  Declines in immunity which can occur as we age or with immunosuppressive medications (such as the therapy for Hodgkins Disease)  are associated with renewed detection of these  hidden infections.  

We have had experiences on the Forum when misinformed clinicians had told patients that a newly discovered HPV infection was definitive evidence of infidelity- that is incorrect.  Your situation is quite unusual and obviously I cannot judge your husband's truthfulness.  That you can discuss the situation and the disclosures he has made suggest that there is a way forward.  I cannot give you a definite judgement as to whether there was more to his body rubs than acknowledged but I can say for someone to have suddenly have not one but 3 new HPV infections appear is unusual and I wonder about the tests themselves.  I hope some of these comments are helpful.  EWH 

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20 months ago
Thank you so much for replying. I’m not sure if my GYN changed testing…she didn’t indicate to me that she did anything different from any other test I have had. She actually stated she always add the HPV testing to her patients. My husband and I have had lots of therapy (couples and individual) to get this line of communication going. We were healing until I got this diagnosis 3 mths ago. I find it very suspicious that I got a sex disease around the same time he was seeing body rub people. Numerous, not just one. Not trying to get personal but we were not being intimate at all in 2020 until July 2021. I guess kind of drifted like some couples do. I read on y’all’s forum that it has to be penetration, not rubbing, it can’t go through clothing and it’s not on towels. Even in my weakest immunity years I had normal paps. I know I sound like I’m trying to put you in the role of therapist, my apologies ! I’m just trying to convey in a short space why I’m so perplexed. The skin to skin explanation is confusing because in a body rub that’s skin to skin. But no penetration? Can it lay dormant in me for 31 years and chemo in 2000 made it resurface in 2023? Sorry if I’m still confused. Thank you for your patience. This is new territory for me. 
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Edward W. Hook M.D.
20 months ago
Thanks for the additional information.  Rubbing against active HPV can transmit the virus- typically this occurs with penetration.  Further, the virus does not spread though clothing.  

Certainly the virus can lie dormant for years, even decades.

I wish I could provide clearer answers.  EWH
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20 months ago
I think this is my last reply according to the rules. When you say “rubbing against active virus can transmit the virus-typically this occurs with penetration”, I guess rubbing without penetration can occur? I’m just picking up on the word typically and its meaning as opposed to “definitely has to have penetration”.  
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Edward W. Hook M.D.
20 months ago
Correct.  If there is HPV exposed/on a surface that is rubbed against another person's exposed skin, HPV can be transmitted.   EWH---