[Question #10883] HIV - symptoms and PREP
19 months ago
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Hello. I had a potential exposure to HIV on 16th Dec ‘2023 - men-men, partner of unknown HIV status, only mutual oral sex and kissing. Sadly, at one point the person put the tip of his finger up my anus, which I immediately took away and, when he’s doing oral sex on me, I felt a bit of a pain (scratch, bite, not sure) yet do not recall seeing any blood. By the time, I was on daily PREP (started on 20th Oct) and keep on taking it.
10/11 days after this, I developed a rash, inflamed nodes on armpits and neck, night sweats, fever, mouth ulcers, belly pain.
I did a 4th gen test at day 17, a PCR HIV-1 RNA and proviral DNA (l. of detection 250 copies - Cephid Xpert Qual) at 19 days, & a 4th gen test at 29 days - all negative, as were Hep B, C, Syphilis, Herpes, Gonorrhoea etc. I’ll of course test again at 45 days but…
-Could PREP have affected the PCR by reducing the viral load so much to less than 250 copies per ml?
-Is a PCR with LOD of 250 copies good enough? Think sample was whole blood.
-Could PREP affect the 4th gen tests even with symptoms present?
-How common are PREP breakthrough infections with good adherence?
-A private clinic advised doing a further PCR, this time quantitative instead of qualitative. Thoughts on this pls?
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H. Hunter Handsfield, MD
19 months ago
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Welcome to the forum. Thank you for your confidence in our services.
You do not have HIV. There was little or no possibility of infection from the exposure described.
The only aspect of this exposure that possibly might transmit HIV is your performance of oral sex on your male partner. If he had HIV, and if he ejaculated in your mouth, the average transmission risk would have been 1 in 10,000. That's equivalent to giving BJs to infected men once daily for 27 years before HIV transmission might be expected. As for him performing oral on you, there has never been a proved case of HIV transmitted oral to penis, and CDC calculated a risk of 1 in 20,000 (equivalent to 55 years of such exposures once daily). The anal fingering was zero risk; HIV has never been transmitted by fingering.
In addition, PrEP is nearly 100% effective. Since you were on PrEP at the time of exposure, I would have advised not even testing for HIV after this event. Your negative test results so far do not prove you were not infected, but they DO prove your symptoms are NOT caused by HIV. It is not possible to have symptoms from HIV/ARS and test negative on the tests you had. It never happens.
To your questions; 1) Yes, PrEP might keep viral load low even if it doesn't prevent infection. But this is very rare, not something to worry about. 2) All viral load tests are equivalent. Almost nobody has HIV but has a viral load under 250 copies. 3) Regardless of PrEP, your negative AgAb (4th generation) test results are very reassuring, as is the negative PCR result. 4) PrEP failures are extremely rare when the drugs are taken on schedule as advised. 5) A clinic with extensive experience in managing and preventing HIV has equally and probably better experience in such care than we do on this forum. Follow their advice.
I'm sure your clinic has told you there is little or no chance you have HIV. I advise continuing to follow their advice. And do your best to stop worrying!
HHH, MD
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19 months ago
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Thanks, Dr. Yes, aware of low risk, but never had these issues, much less all at once at 10 days.
Also,
1. Partner stopped PREP time ago, I fear poor intake/PREP-resistant strain? Also, has amputated leg, had an op 14 days prior -not whole amputation- so + worries re. wounds, worry too re. “Bite” plus he was btm 8 days prior.
2. you said “results so far do not prove you were not infected”?
3. is it confirmed that if symptoms are due to HIV, 4th g.tests (lab based) would’ve picked it up at 17 & 29 days post-sex (7 & 13 post-symptoms) on PREP?
4.how low can PREP keep VL?
5. Saw my PCR has LOD of 278, is it too bad? some have 40. Also, it’s HIV-1, shall I do HIV-2 or not due to 4th g?
19 months ago
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Two final points which might help:
-on 16th Dec at midday (same say but before being w/this person) I had the Mpox jab. And, before symptoms appeared (late Tue 27th Dec) but on same day, I had the 2nd dose of DPT jab. Docs told me perhaps the issues are due to the jabs, + yellow fever a few weeks prior, but I think it’s unlikely as it’ll be 4 weeks of symptoms.
-re sexual partner: can’t trust him, initially said he did not have “full” sex 8 days before being w/me, yet then did say that he’s the bottom. Also, he used to be addicted to fentanyl (said only tablets and not injectable). He also had a bad cold 5 days after being w/me (5+8 post his prior sexual encounter = 13 days). He did do a home test, said all was clear - strange he didn’t do a lab test (all free here in UK).
-On 28 & 29th Dec, I had 2 appts with GPs (after 2 years w/o being sick!) - 1 said it was a non-concerning viral rash, the other gave me nutrifurantoin for 3 days as thought of a UTI. On 30th Dec I went to urgent care due to ulcers and worsening rash. On 2nd Jan had all tests at free clinic (inc 1st 4th gen). On 4th Jan the private PCR. On 15th Jan second 4th gen + 2nd Mpox dose. Now still on PREP as advised by docs. Sorry for the many and long messages and thanks as ever.
19 months ago
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Sorry - a final comment re chronology: all doctors on 28th, 29th and 30th Dec said my intercourse wasn’t high risk, PREP is helpful, not likely HIV, etc. They also advised to keep my appt at sexual health clinic on 2nd Jan, which I of course did and attended. At that appt, they checked me out physically and fully, and saw no broken skin, no wounds, no warts etc, and then took blood for first 4th gen test and other STI’s. On 4th Jan was told all was clear but as it’s still within window period plus I was anxious, I went from my town to London to have a PCR, also negative. On 11th Jan I had a pre-booked appt w my Consultant at sexual health clinic - not for these symptoms but only for PREP renewal — we discussed these issues, she said it’s low risk, and advised me to keep on taking PREP and indeed renewed my prescription for 6 months plus advised testing on 12th Feb. I saw GP last week again due to chills who suggested blood tests- only one liver protein came back slightly raised but they said it’s nothing concerning, all blood tests (white blood cells etc normal). They added HIV is low risk in my case. I will see if I can wait till 12th Feb, otherwise I’ll do a PCR again. Whilst low risk and on PREP, I can’t rust the person I das with plus do have symptoms that exceed anxiety. I’d welcome answers to my questions on my reply comment. Thanks as ever!!!
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H. Hunter Handsfield, MD
18 months ago
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You're going into far more detail than we can address on a distant forum. We do not provide medical care, only general advice. Nothing you say in these extensive comments changes my opinions and advice, that you were at little or no risk of HIV and, that your test results are reliable despite PrEP by either you or your partner, that it is exceedingly unlikely you have HIV, and that you are over-thinking and over-worrying about all this. I suggest you discuss all these issues and questions with the doctor or clinic you have been seeing. As I said above, their expertise in all this probably is greater than mine.---
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18 months ago
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Thank you very much, Doctor. Again, I do acknowledge my anxiety, it’s just these symptoms. Also, English is not my 1st language so often worry about not writing correctly. Re clinics, kindly note the private one does not know me, I went there for 20 mins only for the PCR test, and regular Consultant at my sexual health clinic agrees with you in that my exposure was low rosk and to test on 12th Feb.
Final questions, as per other response are:
1. you said “results so far do not prove you were not infected” - what did you mean?
2. is it confirmed that if my symptoms are due to HIV, 4th g.tests (lab based) would’ve picked it up at 17 & 29 days post-sex (7 & 13 post-symptoms) on PREP?
3. how low can PREP keep VL?
4. Saw my PCR has LOD of 278, is it too bad in your opinion? Read some have 40. Also, it’s HIV-1, shall I do HIV-2 or not due to 4th g?
I appreciate your support and will not ask further after the the answers to the above. Thank you
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H. Hunter Handsfield, MD
18 months ago
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Symptoms NEVER are usefully indicators for or against a new HIV infection. Most new infections cause no symptoms; and every symptom that can occur with acute retroviral syndrome (ARS) is more common with other medical conditions, mostly mild. Symptoms always are to be ignored, and test results always overrule symptoms.
1. This must be a language/translation problem. It means the negative test results you have already had are strong evidence you do not have HIV.
2. Yes, you correctly understand. The negative test results mean your symptoms are not caused by HIV.
3. I don't know the answer, but not so low that the viral load test is negative. That is, somewhere above 250 copies.
4. I do not know how to interpret these numbers. Ask your doctor(s).
That completes the two follow-up questions and answers included with each new question and so ends this thread. I hope the discussion has been helpful and you can stop worrying about this situation. Please do not post any new questions about this on the forum; discuss any further questions with your doctors. Best wishes and stay safe.
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