[Question #10902] Chancre sore ?
18 months ago
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Thanks once again for this forum - I have read many of the questions and they have certainly allowed me to have a much better understanding of STI transmission. I have read that heterosexual syphilis is not that common and oral heterosexual sex even less - The incident involved heterosexual sex - 1st time was 08/17/23 - mutual unprotected oral both way - both caucasian - she 35 me 63 - met on sugar daddy website - both educated - both fully employed - both discussed safe sex and sexual history - both agreed - to have unprotected mutual oral sex only and always use condom for insertive sex - she was concerned about pregnancy as well - second no later than 09/13/23 - mutual unprotected oral both way - condom protected vaginal sex - condom remained in tact - no failure. I have read on this forum and the cdc website that the first sign of syphilis is a chancre sore. It usually occurs approximately three weeks after infection. The cdc website also gives a range between 10 days to 90 days.
On day 125 or approximately 4 months after the event I developed some sort of lesion - I really did not think much about it - figured it was due to friction and moisture and heat from excessive sweat due to my workouts. There were two they were not raised - but they seemed to have moisture and appeared kinda flat- and they bleed when they rub against my underware - i applied ketoconazole - cause my penis was red and i figured it was irritated. Wanted to get your opinion as to what I have said as it relates to syphilis - could a chancre sore appear this late? I assumend the cdc is pretty conservative - but i am pretty sure you guys will know if this happens ?
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Edward W. Hook M.D.
18 months ago
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Welcome back to the Forum. I think your analyses have answered your questions. The encounter you described was low risk and the timing and lesions you describe are in no way suggestive of syphilis. As you point out, the CDC guidelines for the development of syphilis are quite conservative, The majority of syphilis chancres appear within 3 weeks (21 days) of exposure and the idea that a chancre would appear more than 4 months after an exposure is simply not a possibility. Further, the lesions you describe in no way suggest syphilis. OTOH, the fact that these lesions bleed when they merely come into contact with your underwear (I presume you were not repeatedly examining the lesions) is highly unusual and warrants a trip to your dermatologist- not because I suspect an STI but because for lesions to bleed with light contact is quite unusual
Hope this perspective helps. What you describe is NOT syphilis. Time to get it evaluated. EWH
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18 months ago
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Dr. Hook - your comment put my mind at ease - I thank you
Changing the subject here but would like to know your thoughts :
I have read or heard that the reason hiv is difficult to transfer from performing cunnilingus on a female has to do with anatomy - and the secretions of the vagina come from the bartholin gland
And those secretions carry about the same levels of the virus as tears
The cervix is where the virus resides and that it’s location is difficult to reach with the tounge and it actually tries to close during sexual activity - any truth in this ?
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Edward W. Hook M.D.
18 months ago
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The observed data are that cunnilingus on an infected person very rarely leads to infection with HIV. There are likely many reasons for this. Clearly virus is present in vaginal secretions from multiple sources including the cervix, the vagina itself as well as from Bartholin's glands. The oral cavity seems more resistant to infection than genital sites. Insertion of the tongue into the vagina is less abrasive than penile-vaginal sex. All of these likely contribute to the low risk of acquisition of HIV from cunnilingus. EWH---
18 months ago
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Let me thank you in advance for answering my questions
One final question as far as heterosexual sex and hiv
What act carry’s more risk
Receptive oral from a female or performing cunnilingus on a female
Or would both be about as close as you get to 0
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Edward W. Hook M.D.
18 months ago
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As you know, these will be the final responses as part of this thread.
Before I provide the estimates (each of the activities you describe are so rare that frequency is only estimated) let me also remind you that HIV is rare in women, even commercial sex workers from other nations. As for the estimates:
Receipt of oral sex from a woman with untreated HIV- virtually zero. There has never been a case of HIV proven to have been acquired this way.
Performing cunnilingus on a HIV infected woman- less than 1 infection per 10,000 encounters
Both are so rare that this is not a major concern.
End of thread. Take care. EWH
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