[Question #10932] STI exposure and Prevention
18 months ago
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Hi docs,I am a 36 y.o male who had a protected intercourse with a CSW at massage parlour. While having intercourse when I pulled out my penis for a deep thrust I notice my condom was still on and proceeded to a second deep thrust however when pulling out after my second deep thrust I noticed that condom has slipped off and was inside her vagina. Then I immediately stopped the intercourse without entering her right at the moment and wiped my penis with my bare hand. She then took a second condom and we finished the intercourse where I ejaculated inside the condom. Second condom was also slipped halfway (still covering the penis head) when I withdraw. Few days after the incident I had few red spots in my pubic area which I ignored and I was having a mild fever with a mild abdominal pain that comes from time to time. All these symptoms including itching faded away after 13 days. As I read in most resources, I decided to get tested after 43 days and currently waiting on my test results and stressed out seeking an expert's opinion on chances of my risk. My questions are : 01. I am waiting on 10 panel test results from stdcheck.com and what STIs results can be considered as definitive at this time? If I am to retest again what STIs are recommended for a retest? 02.Based on this and your years of experience, how many incidents have you heard of acquiring STIs that are relatively similar to mine? 03.Do you consider this as an unprotected sex? If so, what STIs should I be concerned of acquiring? (My penis head w/o condom may have touched her vaginal lips for in between 1 to 3 sec and she had lot of fluid secretion outside).04.Does 2nd condom being slipped halfway cause any risk?
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H. Hunter Handsfield, MD
18 months ago
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Welcome back to the forum.
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Looking back at your two previous questions as well as this one, it is apparent you overestimate the risks of STIs in general and also to over-analyze the details of your sexual exposures, as well as symptoms and the need for testing. All things considered, this was a very low risk exposure despite the condom slippage. When the penis withdraws from a condom that remains in the vagina, protection is considered complete; and partial slippage on the penis also is common and protection is good as long as the head of the penis remains covered; your own description suggests you know this. Also, the large majority of CSWs do not have active, transmissible infections at any point in time (except HPV, discussed below).
As for your symptoms, they are not consistent with any STD. No STDs cause genital itching, "red spots" in the pubic area, or abdominal pain in males. I would have recommended against any need for testing. To your specific questions:
1) You should expect all your test panel results to be negative.
2) As noted above, no STIs cause the symptoms you describe. I certainly have never seen such a patient.
3,4) Also discussed above. I would consider this event well protected if not quite perfect. You probably were at some risk of STIs transmitted by skin-to-skin contact, i.e. syphilis, herpes and HPV. The first two are exceedingly unlikely already, in absence of typical symptoms; and your likely negative blood tests will confirm you have neither one. HPV is universal in all sexually active people. Undoubtedly have been infected and may carry silent HPV. No single sexual exposure significantly raises the risk of HPV or of any potentially serious outcome from it (like warts or cancer).
You really shouldn't be worried at this point. I'll be happy to comment further if you'd like to report your test results, but let's hold off on further questions or discussion until then. In the meantime, I hope is reply is reassuring.
HHH, MD
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18 months ago
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Hi doctor,
Thanks for the detailed reply and it was quite helpful in relieving stress while waiting on test results. As you predicted, my 6 weeks post exposure for all test results are negative (HIV 1,2 4th gen ab/ Chlam/ gon / Syp / HSV 1,2 / hep a, b, c).
My follow up questions are :
01. At the 43 day mark of the post exposure, what STI results can be considered as conclusive? (For future knowledge)
02. As per many other resources, a condom failure (like tear off or get stuck inside vagina) is generally considered a high risk exposure. How far is this true? And what would be the best immediate action if this happens? Do you recommend PEP? How effective?
03.What would be the chances of developing a certain condition (like cancer, warts) from an hpv infection? And how long it take? How often have you seen it?
04.What is considered as the safest sexual act between oral sex and protected vaginal sex for all the STIs?
05.I got tested on 43rd day after exposure which is negative for STD 10 panel, and on 44th day (next day) I developed a reddish itchy, blistered rash on the side of my neck and it's been a week and still presist. Can this be due to a STI ? (HSV, Syphillis or any other). Do you recommend retesting based on this?
Thanks for the detailed reply and it was quite helpful in relieving stress while waiting on test results. As you predicted, my 6 weeks post exposure for all test results are negative (HIV 1,2 4th gen ab/ Chlam/ gon / Syp / HSV 1,2 / hep a, b, c).
My follow up questions are :
01. At the 43 day mark of the post exposure, what STI results can be considered as conclusive? (For future knowledge)
02. As per many other resources, a condom failure (like tear off or get stuck inside vagina) is generally considered a high risk exposure. How far is this true? And what would be the best immediate action if this happens? Do you recommend PEP? How effective?
03.What would be the chances of developing a certain condition (like cancer, warts) from an hpv infection? And how long it take? How often have you seen it?
04.What is considered as the safest sexual act between oral sex and protected vaginal sex for all the STIs?
05.I got tested on 43rd day after exposure which is negative for STD 10 panel, and on 44th day (next day) I developed a reddish itchy, blistered rash on the side of my neck and it's been a week and still presist. Can this be due to a STI ? (HSV, Syphillis or any other). Do you recommend retesting based on this?
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H. Hunter Handsfield, MD
18 months ago
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01. All those results are conclusive except those for HSV1 and 2. Those take 12-16 weeks and for HSV1, 30% of infected persons never test positive. But there is no risk for HSV1 from genital exposure, so no worries there.
02. Answered in my reply above. Very low risk despite what you have found from nonscientific online sources, and no risk of HIV. It would be wrong to take PEP, and it's much too late anyway.
03. I cannot judge the chance of warts from any single exposure. Probably under one chance in hundreds. For cancer, almost zero, since penile cancer from HPV is so rare.
04. In general, oral sex is a lot safer than genital intercourse for all STIs.
05. No STI causes the sort of rash you describe. I already told you that your test results are reliable and prove you do not have any of the infections you were tested for, with the very unlikely possibility of HSV2
Try to believe the reasoned, science based advice I have given. You have no STI from the events described.
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18 months ago
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Hi doctor,
Thanks again for being so patient and choosing to answer my queries.
My main concerns are mostly due to so much social stigma aimed at STIs among many communities being stuck with one can change the life forever.
01. I might be testing for HSV later on at the mark of 12 -16 weeks since I want to be free of doubt and free of unlike possiblity to make sure not passing anything to a future partner. If you recommend against testing for HSV, I want to know why.
***It's a must say that your responses are helping me a lot in navigating thru this issue with much less stress and anxiety.
02. Also do you thinks I should be tested for Trich after 12 week? What would be the chances of catching Trich in such exposure. Labs offer Urine test for Trich. What would be the ideal wait time for a conclusive Trich test?
03. I forgot to add that the condom wasn't hanging outside from her vagina but it was fully inside in this event. Does that change your assessment on risk wise and is it still considered as a protected intercourse (complete protection)?
04. If the condom didn't fail and stayed properly entire time, would you consider this exposure as a zero risk for all the STIs ? (There was no any sort of oral sex involved in the described exposure other than mutual touching).
05. I know most resources says that condoms provide over 95% of protection and I believe the rest is left incase of tear off or slippage. Is that true?
Thanks again for being so patient and choosing to answer my queries.
My main concerns are mostly due to so much social stigma aimed at STIs among many communities being stuck with one can change the life forever.
01. I might be testing for HSV later on at the mark of 12 -16 weeks since I want to be free of doubt and free of unlike possiblity to make sure not passing anything to a future partner. If you recommend against testing for HSV, I want to know why.
***It's a must say that your responses are helping me a lot in navigating thru this issue with much less stress and anxiety.
02. Also do you thinks I should be tested for Trich after 12 week? What would be the chances of catching Trich in such exposure. Labs offer Urine test for Trich. What would be the ideal wait time for a conclusive Trich test?
03. I forgot to add that the condom wasn't hanging outside from her vagina but it was fully inside in this event. Does that change your assessment on risk wise and is it still considered as a protected intercourse (complete protection)?
04. If the condom didn't fail and stayed properly entire time, would you consider this exposure as a zero risk for all the STIs ? (There was no any sort of oral sex involved in the described exposure other than mutual touching).
05. I know most resources says that condoms provide over 95% of protection and I believe the rest is left incase of tear off or slippage. Is that true?
18 months ago
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With consideration of all the reasoned and science based data you provided I believe it's best to stay away from those type of sexual practices and would help me not passing any STI to a future, possible long-term partner. Therefore I wanted to make sure that I am in the clear side for any STIs including Trich.
06. And with what I feel is that there's no such thing as a fully protected intercourse. (Please Correct me if I am wrong and if you have another opinion I would like to hear that as well)
My apologies for follow up questions if those seems repetitive. I will try my best to adhere with your recommendations and science based advice, believing that I have No any kind of STIs from the described exposure and thanks and appreciate all the support and knowledge you provide throughout this forum.
FYI on question # 10228..,
Apologies I forgot to add my results where doctor Hook replied, that persistent symptoms were due to an RSV infection confirmed by a Positive test. I had to wait some weeks (Till RSV Clears up) to take the 10 panel STI test and it also came out negative as Dr.EWH anticipated. Unfortunately the thread was close by the time when I was going to respond.
06. And with what I feel is that there's no such thing as a fully protected intercourse. (Please Correct me if I am wrong and if you have another opinion I would like to hear that as well)
My apologies for follow up questions if those seems repetitive. I will try my best to adhere with your recommendations and science based advice, believing that I have No any kind of STIs from the described exposure and thanks and appreciate all the support and knowledge you provide throughout this forum.
FYI on question # 10228..,
Apologies I forgot to add my results where doctor Hook replied, that persistent symptoms were due to an RSV infection confirmed by a Positive test. I had to wait some weeks (Till RSV Clears up) to take the 10 panel STI test and it also came out negative as Dr.EWH anticipated. Unfortunately the thread was close by the time when I was going to respond.
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H. Hunter Handsfield, MD
18 months ago
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You don't need to tell me about the stigma associated with STIs!
02. Trichomonas also is too unlikely to warrant testing, but at least the standard nucleic acid test works well.
03. That's exactly what I was referring to in my intial reply "When the penis withdraws from a condom that remains in the vagina, protection is considered complete."
04 and 06. Following vaginal sex, there is no such thing as truly zero risk for STI. Condoms are not perfect. I'm glad to see you understnad that you cannot have intercourse without taking at least a small risk of infection.
05. Yes, there is a difference between "biological effectiveness" and "use efectiveness". Biological means perfectly used condoms that don't break, close to 100% for some infections (e.g. gonorrhea, chlamydia, HIV) and ~90% for those transmitted skin to skin (e.g. HPV, HSV, syphilis). Use effectiveness is quite a bit lower and, as you suggest, takes human error and breakage into account. Couples who use condoms as their only contraceptives have about a 90% reduction in pregnancy rate, not 100% -- even though condoms have close to 100% biological effectiveness against pregnancy.
I'm glad you're recovering from RSV. But there was no need to wait for your STI test panel. RSV is not known to interfere with any of htose tests.
That completes two follow-up exchanges and so ends this thread. I hope the discussion has been helpful. Best wishes and stay safe.