[Question #13726] Rna follow up question
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1 months ago
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Dear Doctors, hello again.
I hope i am not disturbing you with this follow up question.
I was reading a reply given by Doctor Handsfield a couple of months ago:
. "Any and all existing HIV tests always are positive in the presence of symptom caused by HIV, including acute HIV infection (i.e. acute retroviral syndrome or ARS). This is regardless of time since exposure; the 45 day window for the AgAb test is for asymptomatic infection. (There's an exception for the HIV PCR RNA tests, i.e. "viral load". These tests often are negative in people taking anti HIV drugs; and sometimes in the rare HIV infected persons called "elite controllers"
1) Iunderstand that it has been mentioned that PCR RNA tests may not always be reliable in individuals known as “elite controllers.” I would like to ask how one can be confident that they are not an elite controller and that their RNA test result is indeed valid.
2)Additionally, do elite controllers always have a sufficient viral load during the first few weeks after infection that would be detectable by this specific test?
3)If were an elite controller would my 18th day pcr test post the event be valid?
Thank you very much for your time and clarification.
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H. Hunter Handsfield, MD
1 months ago
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I'm sorry you remain so concerned. It is so unnecessary! As already discussed, it is very unlikely you were even exposed to HIV. It is true that elite controllers may have negative PCR tests for viral RNA. But elite controllers are exceedingly rare. The possibility you were infected and are an elite controller probably are under one chance in many million.
1. No data are available on this, but I have never seen or heard of patient in whom an RNA test was negative because they were an elite controller. Elite controllers are so rare that it's not a realistic concern in your case.
2. This is the same question in different words. The viral load test and RNA PCR test are the same thing.
3. Probably yes.
Like many anxious persons, you need to be very careful with online searching. Anxious persons are naturally drawn to information that enhances their fears and miss all the reassuring information that also can be found. It isn't worth it. I suggest you entirely stop online searching about these issues. Accept the logical conclusion: you probably didn't have sex; if you did, it is unlikely your partner has HIV; if he did, your risk of infection was only one chance in a thousand; and elite controllers are rare. The chance that all these factors went the "wrong" way -- and that you actually have HIV -- is under one chance in many billion.
I'm sorry that more detailed data just aren't available. But perhaps it will help you to know that in the 21 years of this forum and our preceding one, with thousands of questions from persons worried about HIV after a possible exposure, nobody has yet turned out to have HIV. You will not be the first. If or when it finally happens, it will not be from a near zero risk exposure like yours but from a genuinely high risk event; think unprotected anal between two men, for example. And it will not be someone with atypical test results -- and certainly not an elite controller. Do your best to accept the science and move on with no further worry.
HHH, MD
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1 months ago
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Dear Dr. Handsfield,
Thank you again for your time and patience. I greatly appreciate it and respect you immensly also for that apart from your amazing expertise.
I have one final clarification question, just to be sure I am understanding the biology correctly.
1)During the first weeks after HIV infection (the acute phase), is viral RNA consistently present at detectable levels on PCR/NAT testing, regardless of whether an individual later becomes an elite controller? Put another way, is early PCR testing considered reliable for ruling out acute infection even in people who ultimately develop elite control?
2)Do you agree with this chat gpt statement:
"An elite controller cannot have undetectable viral load in the first month of HIV infection.
Here’s the clean, scientific reason why — without extra layers:
All HIV infections require an early phase of high viral replication (the acute phase).
This happens before any form of immune control (including elite control) can develop.
During the first 2–4 weeks, viral load is high (typically thousands to millions of copies/mL).
Elite control develops later, after infection is established — not immediately.
There are no documented cases of someone being PCR-negative in the first month due to elite control.
Elite controllers still have detectable viral load early; undetectable PCR in the first month means no HIV".
Thank you again.
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H. Hunter Handsfield, MD
1 months ago
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1) I do not know what proportion of elite controllers never have detectable HIV RNA. I've never seen any research on this. But elite control is so rare that for practical purposes you can consider a negative PCR test 11+ days after exposure as conclusive.
2) Same question in different words. I don't know if an elite controller cannot have a negative test, but clearly it is very rare.
The rest of your questions also are essentially the same using various wordings. You're asking about more detailed biology than I know. Here's a strong piece of evidence you might appreciate: HIV PCR testing is done routinely on all the hundreds of thousands of blood donated to blood banks, the Red Cross, and other agencies every year in the US. In the last 20 or so years, to my knowledge there have been NO known HIV cases transmitted by transfusion of donated blood -- even though there must have been many (hundreds?) of unknowingly infected persons among the donors.
There is no point in asking for more details along these lines; sorry we do not have all the answers you seek. But I suggest you do your best to believe the epidemiology and its likely but often unproved biological explanations.
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1 months ago
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Thank you, Doctor.
So this means I am 100% negative?
Can I move on without further testing?
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1 months ago
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Ps. Have you ever seen anyone test positive after a negative pcr.
Best wishes!
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1 months ago
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Oh my god, I am really sorry, this is indeed the last question:
The test was “48 IU/ml – 5 × 10⁷ IU/ml”. It is a good test right?
Thank you and I sincerely apologize for being so annoying with my questions. I hope this never happens to me again. Thank you again for everything!
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H. Hunter Handsfield, MD
1 months ago
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Yes, 100% negative. I also don't understand the numerical result, but if the lab interpretation is negative, you can believe it. And no, I've never seen nor heard of a patent with negative PCR results more than 11 days after exposure who later turned out to actually have HIV.
That concludes this thread. Please note the forum policy against repeated anxiety driven questions. This should be your last about this exposure and HIV testing.
I do hope the two discussions have helped you move on without further worry. Best wishes and stay safe.
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