[Question #1487] Highly risky insertive oral with multiple cuts & ongoing ARS symptoms 5+ months

46 months ago

Met online girl and was invited for blowjob. 2-3 hrs prior to blowjob, she shaved my pubic hair with new razor and there might be multiple nicks, abrasions, bruises on the base of penis/scrotum/groin area. Also had alcohol together. Suddenly she put my penis in her mouth for 1-2 second, removed immediately and put condom, then got blowjob for 3-4 minutes. As my dick was flaccid, holding condom tight from down, I felt lot of saliva/blood going down to the base of penis/groin/scrotum area. Later she did handjob for 4-5 minutes, but I could not ejaculate, so I left. She was medically terminated due to hiv & deported. So she was untreated and highly infectious.

Risk of acquiring hiv from saliva with bleeding gums on multiple cuts, bearing the scrotum skin is very thin. She was untreated, her viral load were high.

Saliva mix with blood used as lubricant during handjob, due to force, cuts might have opened and allowed the hiv virus to enter the blood stream.

Alcohol can deactivate saliva enzymes and virus in her saliva/blood might not have got inactivated or were infectious.

What is more risky & dangerous, the cuts or urethra. The virus can pass easily from cuts or urethra.

All experts says there should be sufficient virus to transmit hiv, isn’t one virus enough to infect or 0.1 ml of blood enough to transmit hiv.

Hiv is fragile virus, its survival is from 3 seconds/11 seconds/15 seconds/1 minute/hour(s) or days. From mouth to cuts, within 2-3 seconds the virus in saliva with blood due to air exposure might become noninfectious or inactive

The enzymes in saliva can deactivate the virus in blood before going to cuts on the penis/scrotum/groin area.

After 27 days of exposure, ongoing symptoms since 51/2 months, flu like symptoms, low grade fever every day with body and joint aches, chills, white tongue, fatigue & malaise.

Went numerous specialist, did all the blood test like CBC/ESR/CRP/ANA/Arthritis/ thyroid/uric/kidney/liver/Stool/Urine/sputum/X-ray/Ctscan/MRI. symptoms is still going on. Unable to find the cause.

High Esr between the ranges of 45 to 35 showing within 6 months. Pneumonitis in X-ray and did twice antibiotic course of 5 days.

The seroconversion 2-6 weeks and last for 7-10 days, some says 7-14 days/2-4 weeks/2-6 weeks/6 months/lifelong. Is there Ongoing retroviral syndrome, where you don’t recover from the sickness { DrSean/freedomhealth).

ESR not going down, does ARS can cause high ESR for 5+ months.

Edward W. Hook M.D.
Edward W. Hook M.D.
46 months ago

Welcome to the Forum. Your post provides a lot of detail about your exposures but there is no question here, nor is there information about whether or not you have been tested and if so, how long after your exposures began or ended did you test. 

Also, do you really KNOW that this person had HIV or do you assume this (what country are you in- most do not deport immigrants with HIV).

Finally, it is not clear from your post whether this was a one-time event or an ongoing relationship- the post starts with description of 1 interaction but later in the post you state "After 27 days of exposure" - were you expose on one occasion or repeatedly for 27 days. 

When you provide this information I will comment.  EWH

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46 months ago
Sorry Doctor I could not explain u.

This was only first one n last exposure in my 48 yrs n  out of my marriage, which happened on 31st of may 2016. After 27 days of this oral incident I started to have  flu like symptoms with body/joint aches with my body gets hot till today. I cannot function and especially aircondition makes it worse.

I m in dubai and their is no anonymous testing here. Anyone who tested positive are deported. Also, due to ongoing 5+ months symptoms I m very afraid to go for testing.  My medical test is due in April 2017 for renewing my employment visa. I dont know what is in my destiny. My wife and kids future is depend on my hiv medical test.

I was not worried and concerned about hiv as I read that oral is zero risk or any contact outside the body is not infectious. It is unable to reproduce outside the host. But, this ongoing symptoms has shaken my confidence completely and I had convince myself that this is ARS and I m infected with hiv.

Also, I did not had any sexual relation with my wife after this oral incident till today and she is working as kindergarten teacher n she just passed her medical/hiv test in October 2016.

I have been reading your articles in medhelp since 1 year before deciding to go for oral sex.

My questions are

1. What are my Risk of acquiring hiv from saliva probably with bleeding gums on multiple cuts, bearing the scrotum skin is very thin. She was untreated, her viral load were high.

2. Saliva probablyvmix with blood was used as lubricant during handjob, due to rigorous hand force the cuts on penis might have got opened and allowed the hiv virus to enter the blood stream.

3. She drank alcohol, so does it can deactivate the enzymes/proteins of saliva and virus in her saliva/blood might not have got inactivated or were infectious and had transmitted thru penis cuts.

4. What is more risky & dangerous, the cuts or urethra. The virus can pass easily from cuts or urethra, which are more accessible to hiv. Does shaving nicks increases the risk of hiv. Does blood to blood contact thru cuts are not risky.

5. All experts says there should be sufficient virus to transmit hiv, isn’t one virus enough to infect or 0.1 ml of blood enough to transmit hiv.

6. All experts says, Hiv is fragile virus, but their is contradicting information of its survival outside body, some says survival is 3 seconds, 11 seconds, 15 seconds, 1 minute, hour(s) or days. Exactly how much time it survives n can infect

7. The saliva mix with blood From mouth to cuts while sucking can reach within 2-3 seconds, so within 2-3 second the hiv virus due to air exposure might become noninfectious or inactive or can infect.

8.'The enzymes/protein in saliva can deactivate the virus in blood from bleeding gums before going to cuts on the penis/scrotum/groin area.

9. There is no reliable news, so i would like to know the seroconversion is coming within 2-6 weeks and last for 7-10 days, but some says 7-14 days/2-4 weeks/2-6 weeks/6 months/lifelong. Mine is going on since 5+ months.

10. Also, Is there any Ongoing retroviral syndrome, other than acute retroviral syndrome where you don’t recover from the sickness { Read Dr Sean/ freedomhealth). It make me scare to death as mine is ongoing after the oral exposure

11. My ESR is not going down, does ARS can cause high ESR for 5+ months.

12. Most reputable hiv experts accepts, there is risk in giving Blowjob, So, I wanted to know, If the giver is blowing with his bleeding gums & the infected body fluid (semen/blood) from the receiver can infect the giver thru his bleeding gums, then why not the saliva mix  with blood of giver can infect to the receiver through urethra or cuts on penis.

I had enquire to many hiv forums like medhelp, poz, aidsvancouver, healthboards, webmd, etc about this oral exposure. Noone is ready to accept it as risk and not considering this symptoms as ARS. They are telling oral sex irrespective of cuts or blood is not risk.  They are telling their is no documented cases of hiv from receiving oral and from spillage (contact outside the body) in 35+ years . Also, saliva has many enzymes/protein which deactivates the virus, even if blood is present in mouth. Also, superficial cuts does not transmit as it is not the route, unless u have big cuts which requires stitches or urgent medical attention. But mine oral was different , as their were multiple cuts and she was probably having bleeding gums. Also, most importantly, 5+ months long symptoms going on. I dont know this is ARS or something else. No Dr is able to diagnose this body/joint aches with low grade fevers. Why I m not recovering. Believe me I m having this symptoms and it is not guilt or anxiety.

As per cdc guidelines insertive oral is 1 in 20,000 risk. Their is no 0% or 100% in medical field, if someone is unlucky, he can be infected from unusual routes also.I did not got so sick in.my 48 yrs. Sometime I doubt this is due to hiv. Such long n undiagnosed illness creates fear of hiv.

People who are seroconverting, what medicine they are taking to recover from the Acute hiv infection or they recover by themselves (Antibiotic or Antiviral medicines). Every day I am hoping today I will feel better, but still the symptoms are persisting. When I will feel normal like before and recover fully.

Do I need to do hiv test and are this ARS symptoms. If u insist I have to go india for hiv test, but I m very afraid to do hiv test due to ongoing symptoms. Do ArS last 6+ months.

After long time finally I got u and plz reply as much as possible. I have been struggling since 6 months.


Edward W. Hook M.D.
Edward W. Hook M.D.
46 months ago

Thank you for your clarification.  I will help me to comment.  To summarize what I will say below, from what you tell me, the exposures you describe were NO RISK for HIV.  There are NO reported cased of HIV acquired either by receipt of oral sex or by receipt of masturbation, no matter how long.  Further the ARS do NOT last five months.  You should be looking for another cause of your symptoms.   With this summary I will answer your specific questions


1. What are my Risk of acquiring hiv from saliva probably with bleeding gums on multiple cuts, bearing the scrotum skin is very thin. She was untreated, her viral load were high.

The risk of this exposure is ZERO. NO case of transmission has EVER been described.  You do not know what her viral load was.

2. Saliva probablyvmix with blood was used as lubricant during handjob, due to rigorous hand force the cuts on penis might have got opened and allowed the hiv virus to enter the blood stream.

Still NO RISK.  Saliva form persons with HIV and blood in their mouths has been used in Millions of episodes of masturbation yet on one has EVER described a single case of HIV acquired in this way. 

3. She drank alcohol, so does it can deactivate the enzymes/proteins of saliva and virus in her saliva/blood might not have got inactivated or were infectious and had transmitted thru penis cuts.

No, drinking alcohol does not change the risk.  Still NO RISK.

4. What is more risky & dangerous, the cuts or urethra. The virus can pass easily from cuts or urethra, which are more accessible to hiv. Does shaving nicks increases the risk of hiv. Does blood to blood contact thru cuts are not risky.

Shaving does not change the risk.  Both receipt of oral sex and receipt of masturbation are still no risk events.

5. All experts says there should be sufficient virus to transmit hiv, isn’t one virus enough to infect or 0.1 ml of blood enough to transmit hiv.

While in theory a single virus might cause infection, the fact is that many viruses are needed.  Still no risk.

6. All experts says, Hiv is fragile virus, but their is contradicting information of its survival outside body, some says survival is 3 seconds, 11 seconds, 15 seconds, 1 minute, hour(s) or days. Exactly how much time it survives n can infect.

The virus becomes non-infectious almost immediately after leaving the body and exposure to air.  Precisely how long is unknown and would be influenced by many factors. 

7. The saliva mix with blood From mouth to cuts while sucking can reach within 2-3 seconds, so within 2-3 second the hiv virus due to air exposure might become noninfectious or inactive or can infect.

Why do you keep repeating this question.  The answer will not change- still no risk.

8.'The enzymes/protein in saliva can deactivate the virus in blood from bleeding gums before going to cuts on the penis/scrotum/groin area.

No change in my early answer.

9. There is no reliable news, so i would like to know the seroconversion is coming within 2-6 weeks and last for 7-10 days, but some says 7-14 days/2-4 weeks/2-6 weeks/6 months/lifelong. Mine is going on since 5+ months.

4th generation tests for HIV are completely reliable at 4 weeks after an exposure.  PCR tests become positive earlier but how uch earlier varies from person to person.  If you had HIV your test would be positive.

10. Also, Is there any Ongoing retroviral syndrome, other than acute retroviral syndrome where you don’t recover from the sickness { Read Dr Sean/ freedomhealth). It make me scare to death as mine is ongoing after the oral exposure

No, there is no "ongoing retroviral syndrome"

11. My ESR is not going down, does ARS can cause high ESR for 5+ months.

ARS does not last 5 months.  The ESR is a non-specific test.  That your ESR is elevated DOES NOT mean you have HIV.


It is clear from reading your post that you are convinced that you have HIV.  Based on the exposures you report and the duration of your symptoms, I am confident that you do not.  If you need to prove this to yourself you should get a test- it will be negative!  In the meantime, asking repetitive questions will not change my assessment.  YOU ARE NOT GOING TO BE THE FIRST PERSON TO GET HIV FROM RECEIPT OF ORAL SEX OR MASTURBATION!!  EWH


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46 months ago

Thank you Dr. Hook for your wonderful advice and giving me some confidence.

What other cause of my symptoms could be. The specialist did all type of blood test, xray, ctscan within 6 months except Hiv. Today again I went and got the cbc & ESR blood work done, but still my ESR is 26. Since 6 months it is not coming down. What kind of inflammatory process or infection is going on in my body? Still I have mild body pain and my body gets hot, but not fever. I cannot tolerate the Air condition and feel worse in the cold. Once I get out of the air-condition, the sensation & mild pain in my feets & legs are so intense, even my bone gets chilled & take time to get normal. All types of body pain I am experiencing, its flu type, arthritis type migratory pain & different burning type sensation & pain. I cannot shower, as the symptoms gets worse upon taking shower. I shower only weekly one time.

Its not light enough to be consider as cold or severe enough to be flu. What kind of strange body pain & feverish feeling. My body gets hot on & off, especially air-condition makes my body hot.

I would like to inform you that, I was having severe health anxiety since last 20 years. Due to ongoing symptoms since 6 months, there are many what ifs question. So, I have some follow-up question : 

1. As I am having severe health anxiety since 20 years and my immunity might have been little compromised. So what if I am exposed to hiv during oral exposure & I am unable to recover from the ARS symptoms.

2. When I make CT Scan of the chest at the beginning after the xray of pneumonitis, they found small size Reactionary pretracheal lymph node. Are pneumonitis or Reactive lymph nodes are related to ASR or hiv

3. You said saliva from persons with HIV and blood in their mouths has been used in millions of episodes of masturbation or blowjob. But what about the cuts, was that fluids went to their cuts & even no risk of hiv.

4. You said ARS does not last for 5 months. How long does it last, some experts says 7-10 days, 7-14 days, 2-4 weeks, 2-6 weeks, 6 months or lifelong.

5. What is relation between ARS & inflammation or ESR. How long the high ESR can continue during ARS. Is there any relation between HIV & Inflammation.

6. I have read in many reputable sites & many experts also believe that, giving blowjob is risk & many of them got hiv by giving oral sex thru their bleeding gums, So, my question is if the body fluid like semen/blood through the sores or cuts  can infect to the giver thru bleeding gums or ejaculation, why not the blood mix with saliva of giver can infect to the receiver through urethra or cuts.

7. There was a study recently that links pubic hair grooming & sti’s “Correlation between pubic hair grooming and STI’s results from a nationally representative probabitly sample: E Charles Osterberg, Thomas W Gaither Mohannad Awad Mathew Truesdale, Isabel Allen etc They say that grooming can cause “micotears” in the skin creating access points for viruses. They cite a case where HIV was transmitted between brothers using the same blade, although they also state that this kind of transmission is extraordinary rare.  What is ur opinion. If Hiv is rendered inactive outside the host. Does Hiv from saliva mix with blood can be absorb on shaving cuts through microtears.

8. Regarding the 3/5/10 years page shafer or other studies, where they did not got infected by hiv from oral sex, whether there was any gum disease or blood or cuts with the participants and also I read they were on ART medicines, which means very low or undetected viral load. 

9. I did not had any sexual contact with my wife since that oral exposure, fearing I might infect her with hiv. So, if my symptoms are not related to hiv or if I am not infected from HIV, can I have unprotected sexual relation with wife.

10. All experts says hiv is only transmitted via unprotected vaginal/anal sex or from sharing needles and only inside the human body where it is not exposed to air. So my question is wouldn’t the active virus that got on my shaving cuts thru saliva mix with blood a risky exposure? I understand that, it was outside the body or host, do all the virus in blood would be deactivated by the time (within 2-3 second) it got on to my cuts. Can I really put behind me and live normally. Can you please explain why this wouldn’t happen based on your expertise rather than general statements like hiv is fragile virus unable to infect outside the host. What is it exactly that renders hiv non infectious outside the body.

11. Also, I would like to know how the cases are documented. As all Specialist are telling receiving oral sex and any outside the body contact or spillage exposure is zero risk as there are no documented case in 35 years of aids pandemic. Suppose someone, who is in monogamous relation with his partner & No risky activities/No drugs/No unprotected anal-vaginal intercourse with anyone/Not a gay and having the same classic ars symptoms which he got within 2-6 weeks, how he can be documented and prove that he got hiv from receiving oral sex with bleeding gums on cuts. All hiv forums don’t accept if someone declare that, he got hiv from receiving oral sex or from blood to blood contact outside the body. They think he is lying or he was involved in unprotected anal/vaginal sex, which he don’t remember or he might be ashamed of telling he was involved in unprotected anal.

I would appreciate if I get the opinion of Dr. HHH also, if you don’t mind, as he is little conservative and what does he think of my exposure & ongoing symptoms since 6 months.

I am sorry for asking too many questions as I am unable to function since 6 months due to ongoing symptoms and many what if questions comes to mind. So plz bear with me. I will be grateful to you all my life for your honest opinion. 

I dont have courage to go for hiv test, until I m forced for my employment visa renewal in april 2017. Then I will post my result.

Thank you and god bless u. 


Edward W. Hook M.D.
Edward W. Hook M.D.
46 months ago

Final comments. this site is provided to provide information and advice regarding HIV and STIs. You do not have either.  You acknowledge that you have health-related anxiety and I suspect that this is at least contributing, if not the reason for your symptoms.  If you wish to pursue them further, my advice is to forget about STIs and HIV as it clear that these are not your problem and work through them with a trusted general physician who you can see regularly.  An internal medicine specialist is what I would advise.  With the I will briefly comment on yor follow-p questions:

1.  The symptoms of the ARS are severe, non-specific and last less than a few weeks.  Your symptoms are not suggestive of the ARS.  You can prove that you did not get HIV by being tested (more on this below).  If your symptoms still trouble you, you should look elsewhere for other, non-STI, non-HIV related causes

2.  Reactive lymph nodes are non-specific and what you describe does not suggest HIV.

3.  Even with cuts, there is no risk of HIV form receiving oral sex- none!

4.  You ask my opinion and you received it.  This is based on scientific studies.,  No knowledgeable specialist will claim that HIV-related ARS last months and particularly for 6 months. If the information you mention has come from the internet then this proves what a poor source of information this is.

5.   The ESR is non-specific.  The ESR does not help to diagnose the ARS.  An ESR of 26 is not typically a cause for alarm.

6.  Asking the same question will change my opinion or advice.  Receipt of oral sex does not put you, or anyone else at risk for HIV. If you have obtained with information from what you call "reputable sites" I suggest you discuss next steps with them.

7.  I am aware of this study.  The authors found as association. This does not prove causality.

8.  Sorry this comment/question makes no sense.  No comment

9.  I see no reason from the information you have provided not to be completely comfortable with having unprotected sex with your wife.

10.  I will not repeat myself. 

11.  No comment. this is an argument, not a question.

If you post again, I will not answer it and anticipate that Dr. Handsfield will not either. 

You SHOULD have an HIV test.  It will be negative.  If it were positive, all it would do would be to give you the information you need to seek care. 

This ends this thread.  It will be closed in a few hours. Further questions to me will be deleted without comment. Dr. Handsfield will feel the same way.  EWH

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