[Question #2050] Dr hook medhelp HIV tissue use on needle site mistake

48 months ago
Dear doctor hook this question is directly to you as I have read many information of yours on medhelp I need your response please somehow just you (HIV risk)

I was having a routine blood test   . I was focused on checking the butterfly needle was new it was perfect .  

The only mistake I made was I didn't use the gauze which is applied on needle site immediately after the blood draw to stop the bleeding once blood draw is done 

 . I used my own tissue from home  the problem. I kept the tissue on the desk  where my blood was taken and then  on the surface of another tissue box on the desk  I did not use their tissue only kept my tissue on the labs  tissue box . I am just worried basically if any blood from previous patient can be picked up from the surface where I kept my tissues on(table and the surface of the tissue box) . My tissue was lying on the surface of another tissue box on the desk for at-least 7minutes and I was sitting next to it waiting for blood draw 

My questions 

1) I just didn't check if the surface was clean and just before the needle has to be withdrawn from my vein I had to put the tissue on the needle site and then the nurse withdrew the needle and then immediately I had to apply slight pressure on my needle site using my tissue. I saw blood I am just wondering if that was my own blood or it came out from the surface where I kept my tissue it was stupid of me not to check the surface and I'm worried can anything be transferred to the tissue 
    

2) Some facts I was there for at-least 7minutes  so anything on the surface(the surface is the tissue box where I kept my own tissue lying flat)  HIV would have been HIV would have been dead ? 

3) The blood was very tiny on my tissue  I quickly changed side of the tissue not realising which side of the tissue is clean the blood  was very tiny I'm sure the tissue would have immediately dried the blood also because my own blood dried immediately when I was using the tissue 

4) This is very important question I read from medhelp you have said that a small wound created from a butterfly needle is known as superficial contamination and putting a contaminated cotton or a tissue in my case cannot transmit HIV as it has to go deep into the tissue to infect 

5) I read on medhelp blood is flowing out from needle site nothing is being injected and you cannot get HIV on applying something where your blood was taken (needlesite)
      


          Am I safe I believe the wound is too small correct and only wound transfer HIV was from a knife fight where huge amounts of blood were present not some drops form tissue ? 

 . I'm sorry I made the mistake of not checking the surface on where I kept my tissue am I at risk of HIV ,hep ? Dr hook I want you to help 
       

48 months ago
I failed to check the desk also kept tissue there also for a while but I used my tissue atleast 7minutes after putting it there would hiv be dead ? In environment ? 
Edward W. Hook M.D.
Edward W. Hook M.D.
48 months ago
Welcome to our Forum and thanks for your confidence in our Forum.  As an FYI, Dr. Handsfield and I take questions interchangeably because we are in total agreement our management recommendations although our verbal styles do vary.  Today I happened to pick up your questions and will try to help.  Before I get to your specific questions, let me point our that I am not aware of any infections which have ever occurred as the result of the process of drawing blood from an infected person.  Thus I really do not think you have anything to worry about.  I certainly would not worry about having used a tissue to cover the spot where the blood was drawn.  Now, let's go on to your questions:

1) I just didn't check if the surface was clean and just before the needle has to be withdrawn from my vein I had to put the tissue on the needle site and then the nurse withdrew the needle and then immediately I had to apply slight pressure on my needle site using my tissue. I saw blood I am just wondering if that was my own blood or it came out from the surface where I kept my tissue it was stupid of me not to check the surface and I'm worried can anything be transferred to the tissue.
 
 I am confident that what you saw was your own blood.  It would have been obvious if this was not the case.  These is no harm to having used your own tissue.  Remember, the tissue did not penetrate your skin. 

2) Some facts I was there for at-least 7minutes  so anything on the surface(the surface is the tissue box where I kept my own tissue lying flat)  HIV would have been HIV would have been dead ? 

Correct

3) The blood was very tiny on my tissue  I quickly changed side of the tissue not realising which side of the tissue is clean the blood  was very tiny I'm sure the tissue would have immediately dried the blood also because my own blood dried immediately when I was using the tissue 

See my response to 1 above.  This is not a concern.

4) This is very important question I read from medhelp you have said that a small wound created from a butterfly needle is known as superficial contamination and putting a contaminated cotton or a tissue in my case cannot transmit HIV as it has to go deep into the tissue to infect 

This is a correct statement

5) I read on medhelp blood is flowing out from needle site nothing is being injected and you cannot get HIV on applying something where your blood was taken (needlesite)

Correct again, I'm glad you researched this on our previous MedHelp replies

I hope this information is helpful to you. From what you describe, I am confident that there was no risk to you for HIV, hepatitis, or other infections from having your blood drawn as described.  If there are clarifications or follow-up questions, I will be pleased to address them.  EWH
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48 months ago
To be very honest yes clarification and thank you for even saying that im just trying to be calm here 

1) first do I need an HIV test ? Would you test if you were me ?  If not then we can talk about how I am safe below  but please give you own ideas that would be very nice on how it cannot penetrate the neede site and HIV in environment would be dead thank you and some questions are below 

2) you words "remember the tissue did not penetrate you skin " . This means even though small blood was coming out from needle site for only a few seconds . My wound is classified as a superficial wound this not an open wound basically  some clarification on this even though it was applied second after the needle was withdrawn ? 

3) even if contaiminated tissue was rubbed on my needle site nothing can be injected why is that because even though blood was coming out I stopped it from coming out and basically rubbing is not a way to inject anything ? 

4) we'll hiv would be dead in the first place correct like a person drop of blood was on a table  it was exposed to air so no risk here ? . I believe I want to need really large amounts of blood rather than few tiny drops ? And well 7minutes was enough  and even earlier it could have died maybe in seconds also ? 

5) what does  environment surface mean : environment surface can be anything a table , floor  and a surface of an object such as a tissue .   So if the surface is clean to the naked eye i would like to know hiv cannot live in microscopic quantity . 

6) next time I'll just use the gauze from nurse there gauze are always open in a box on the desk next to the blood draw area  so if they look clean that is enough HIV cannot be present in microscopic quantities ?  What I meant to say is if nothing is visible to the naked eyes that's enough ?And can you clarify why HIV would not  be available  in microscopic quantities too fragile or that will be just too small and would be dead  ? It has to be visible on surfaces ? . And we'll hiv won't be active on environment in the first place . If nothing is visible on the gauze next time I use it that means there is no HIV on it . It can't be in microscopic quantity 

7) if the tissue absorbed the tiny blood that would absorbed blood on tissue that would have killed it instantly ? Over all my tissue was totally dry just some spots on tissue of blood Tiny they would have dried immediately also ? Or maybe the virus would just stick to the tissue ? 

Any how doctor please give your own explanation I only just read your medhelp posts and tried my best to understand I don't know what surface contamination even means but I was trying my best to undertand can you explain in your own words and what surface conatimination means .  And well why I shouldn't worry or we'll do I need to test if not that would be helpful 

48 months ago
I would like your own ideas on how HIV in the start when not "you ideas" made a mistake there 

And how HIV cannot be transmitted this way and well if I'm wasting my money if I test 
48 months ago
Basically what I'm asking is why nothing can be injected this way and why HIV dead in environment and not available also in microscopic quantity thank you 
48 months ago
So please give detail I believe you are right it can't be transited this way but I need your knowledge because this forum does not provide too many second chances on second questions . And I do not want to go some random doctor also dr hook thank you 
Edward W. Hook M.D.
Edward W. Hook M.D.
48 months ago
Your questions are a bit repetitive and seem to demonstrate much anxiety about a situation which all experts would agree was a no risk event in terms of risk for acquisition of HIV and other blood born infections like hepatitis.  My replies will be brief.
1.  There is no risk for HIV from getting your blood drawn. This was explained above and in MedHelp.  You do not need and HIV test related to the events you described.
2.  The puncture wound for your drawing blood does not represent an entrance way for HIV from your environment to get into your body.  Blood was coming out, nothing went in. 
3.  Correct, even if the tissue were contaminated, rubbing it on the puncture site would not represent a risk for HIV.
4.  Correct, even if HIV were on the surface, it would be non-infectious.  You did not see obvious blood so this is not a consideration.
5.  Correct, if a surface does not have visible blood, you will not become infected through contact with it.  Environmental surfaces include counter tops, floors, toilet seats, furniture.
6.  Correct.  It is common practice to have clean gauze open and available so it can be put on puncture wounds.  If it is not obviously contaminated with blood or secretions, you should not be worried.
7.  Microscopic amounts of blood or secretions on the tissue would not represent a risk to you.  HIV would be non-infectious if present.

For you to test becasue of the events you describe would be a waste of time and money.  I hope this is clear.  EWH
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48 months ago
Thanks doctor hook 

1) I just read rubbing anything on puncture site won't introduce anything your thoughts are the same on hep also ? Hep cannot be introduced this way ? Because of the same reasons that blood is going out and nothing is being injected or there is slight risk for hep

I am vaccinated for hep b that meanes im protected at all times from  hep b ? 

2)So basically nothing can enter this way and next time if gauze looks clean that is enough microscopic quantity is irrelevant if it's clean to the eye then that is it no virus . 

3) dear doc this another question before you confirm that I am okay for hep also . I want to know hiv  needs to be trasmitted directly without air exposure . Basically from a needle and that has to be done immediately . Because the syringe isn't exposed to air .  But when it comes to HIV outside the body contact from blood or secretions on environment surfaces and also transferring something from environment to a tissue like mine has never known HIV trasmission correct  ? HIV cannot be picked up from environmental surfaces ? In general 

4) I also just want to tell me that once HIV is outside the human body nobody has been infected with HIV regardless of wounds I may have or whatever contact from HIV fluids nobody gets HIV once it's leaves the body in environment . And by environment I mean once HIV leaves the human body in simple terms  on surfaces or objects or cuts if not well that is great Can you give some information on this also 

Thank you for helping me and can you tell me that hep cannot also be transmitted This way because it won't be a point of entry puncture site. or am I just a bit risk for hep . And would hep be also non active or that can remain active for long time in environment thanks 

48 months ago
Just to add about the microscopic part . If blood or secretions is present HIV would be inactivate and  non infectious is this the same  for hep the next time that hep cannot live also on gauze or tissue in microscopic quantity and if nothing is visible  on gauze or tissue then I should forget hep also 

Thank you if all is okay with this just right in the end  I will waste my money on this if I give it another thought or is hep test is needed 
48 months ago
Finally just add this wording in your closing statement for my peace of mind the small wound created from the needle is a superficial wound so that whenever I apply a gauze or band aid I'll know it's a superficial wound that I'm apply on which is the needle site . And not considered a deep wound and nothing can enter unless ofcorse I use old  infected needle to penetrate the skin for my peace of mind thank you 
Edward W. Hook M.D.
Edward W. Hook M.D.
48 months ago
Your questions are repetitive and not focused on the appropriate issues.  Terms such as superficial and deep are less important that biological observations or whether or not material was injected into the body as opposed to touching or scraping.  Further, as pointed out repeatedly, your questions are focused on activities that have been carried out literally millions of times and yet have NEVER been described to put people at risk for HIV.  You need to stop worrying about such things.  Brief, final answers to your questions;

1. Correct for hepatitis B as well.  Further, if you are vaccinated against hepatitis B you can be confident you will not be infected.
2.  Correct
3.  As I have said repeatedly HIV is not acquired through contact with environmental surfaces.  Once again your focus is a bit off base.  Indeed contact with the open air and environmental exposure does make HIV non-infectious as opposed to circumstances in which infected material is injected into tissue.
4.  See above.  Hepatitis B is a less fragile virus than HIV and may remain infectious outside of the body longer (for instance if it is inside a needle used for repeated injections).  surface contamination however is not a concern and as you point out, the vaccine is highly effective.

Just as you do not need testing for HIV related to the events you describe, you do not need testing for hepatitis B and for you to test because of the events you describe would be a waste of time and money.

This is my third reply to your questions and therefore as per forum guidelines, will conclude the thread.  Please note that

the forum does not permit repeated anxiety driven questions by the same users. This will have to be your last one; future new questions on this topic will be deleted without reply and without refund of your posting fee. This policy is based on compassion, not criticism, and is designed to reduce temptations to keep paying for questions with obvious answers; because experience shows that continued answers tends to simply prolong such anxieties, when the real answer normally should be professional counseling; and because such questions have little educational value for other users, one of the forum's main purposes. I trust you will understand.  EWH


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