[Question #2590] genital rubbing and cunnilingus

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96 months ago

Hi Doctors;

18 days ago, I had an encounter with a CSW in Beirut, Lebanon. She said that she is Syrian and has been working in this for only 2 months and she don't take drugs,alcohol, or smoking and she doesn’t have anal sex. I brought her through agency on internet for 200$.

  Most of the times I was kissing, sucking nipples. Then I did brief cunnilingus, I think only my lips were involved in it but I will assume that my tongue was involved too. Then I proceeded to rub my penis on her vagina. Here, when I approached to start the she stopped me as she thought I wanted to penetrate but I told no penetration. Throughout the whole act my penis didn't get full erection. I rubbed the head of my penis against her vagina (in the middle of her outer labia) up and down, so urethra was exposed. After many trials to get my penis erect I put the condom and tried to have vaginal intercourse but I failed because hard erection lasted in seconds. Before I put the condom I noticed some vaginal fluids on my penis head. I am 85% sure that no penetration occurred, the 15% doubt is due to the following reasons: 1st I wasn't looking down on our genitals the whole time, 2nd I used procomil spray that decrease the sensation on penis to last long during the relation so if minimal penetration occurred I may not feel it, and 3rd anxiety.

I also used my finger to rub her vagina but I didn't insert it in her vagina, in the same week I noticed dead-like skin on that finger but it is not peeling. It is small (1 cm L and 2 mm W) it only has rough sensation and it never bled. The problem is that I can’t remember if it were present before the encounter. I had no meaningful symptoms (no rash or fever or severe sore throat) but on day 10-11 I had salty phlegm and mucus and salty throat that lasted in 2 days. No visible enlargement in my lymph but I feel mild burn sensation on different areas of my neck and beard. But when I wake at morning I feel nothing, maybe these sensations come and when I start thinking about the encounter.

1-      What was the risk of HIV from this act?

2-      I am very worried and anxious and planning to test (4th generation) on days 21, 28 and 42, how reassuring would be 21 days? Have you ever seen a negative at 3 weeks change later?

3-      For many years you were assuring that that a 4 weeks 4th generation negative is conclusive, I noticed that you changed to 6 weeks. Did you see a negative changed after 4 weeks? All the people who considered their 4 weeks negative conclusive before should test again? 

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Edward W. Hook M.D.
96 months ago
Welcome to our forum.  The exposure that you describe sounds like a no risk event.  There is certainly no risk for HIV or any other STI from the rubbing you describe, nor from the contact of your finger with her genital secretions.   There is no known risk of HIV or other STI from your licking her vagina.  That leaves your possible penile penetration.  If no did not penetrate, there is no risk from that activity as well.  If you did, there is risk and testing should be performed.  With respect to your specific questions:

1-      What was the risk of HIV from this act?
See above.  Probably zero.

2-      I am very worried and anxious and planning to test (4th generation) on days 21, 28 and 42, how reassuring would be 21 days? Have you ever seen a negative at 3 weeks change later?
There are HIV infections which have been missed when 4th generation tests were used for less than 4 weeks and even a very few after 4 weeks.  Results are definitive after 6 weeks.

3-      For many years you were assuring that that a 4 weeks 4th generation negative is conclusive, I noticed that you changed to 6 weeks. Did you see a negative changed after 4 weeks? All the people who considered their 4 weeks negative conclusive before should test again?

I have never seen a test which was not detected by 4th generation tests at 4 weeks HOWEVER there are, apparently, a very small number of cases which have been detected in the interval between 4 and 6 weeks. The proportion of such cases is very low.  This statement reflects recent data from the U.C. CDC. 


I hope that they are helpful to you.  EWH

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96 months ago
Thanks for your reply, So it is useless to test before 4 weeks? 
I described what happened in details, if you were me would you test? 
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Edward W. Hook M.D.
96 months ago
Useless/  No.  In fact, the vast majority of HIV infections would be detected IF you had a meaningful exposure.  The reason I would not rush to test repeatedly is because your risk from the events you describe was virtually no risk unless there was penile penetration into her vagina which, from your post, apparently did not occur.  Testing, of course, is a personal decision but, if I were you, I would not bother to test because of the events that you have described.  EWH
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96 months ago
Dear doctor;
Today (after 28 days from the exposure) I did a lab based 4th generation HIV 1/2 ab & p24 and it came back negative. I did the test in the best hospital in the middle east. 
Should I put my hiv fear behind and move on? Do you see any medical reason to retest after 2 weeks?
I  didn't show any of the ARS symptoms. 
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Edward W. Hook M.D.
96 months ago
Yes, my advice would be to move on with your life based the exposure that you report.  The exposure itself was not meaningful and your test results confirm that you did not get HIV from the exposure you have describe. 

As you know., we permit up to three replies to clients following a question.  This is my third response.  While you may post something more, there will be no further replies and this thread will be closed later today.  Take care.  EWH
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