[Question #4162] Just when you thought you had answered all massage questions...

84 months ago

I have a feeling that I can already guess the response to some of my questions as I have done a lot of reading here and on other medical sites regarding the risk levels of certain activities. For some reason, probably anxiety related, I believe my situation to be marginally different and would like the opinion of an expert to put my mind at rest.

Here are the short version of events, with what I believe to be the pertinent information. Both of us naked.

1-Whole body massaged by hand, including penis, scrotum, perineum and anus (outside), not face.
2-She rubbed her vagina during the hand massage, using the same hand to then massage me.
3-Breast area to penis contact, vigorous.
4-Her vagina resting on my lower back, upper thigh and lower stomach (where she was sitting).
5-Body to body massage, rubbing up and down whole body. I am 95+% sure there was no penetration, but possibly light genital rubbing, realistically it may have just been contact with the front of her pubic area. This lasted at most, 1 minute. (Difficulty remembering exactly so there is doubt)

I urinated and showered directly afterwards.

My guesses for risk are, 1-zero, 2-near zero, 3-zero, 4-theoretical but near zero, 5 - ???

So, my questions would be. What are the REAL risk levels for these activities? Would you suggest any testing, even if to satiate an anxious mind, especially as I am not exactly sure what happened during the body to body activity?

I was considering herpes, syphilis... maybe gono? lice? Ureaplasma?

H. Hunter Handsfield, MD

84 months ago

Welcome to the forum. Thanks for your question.

Thanks for reading the forum and looking at other questions similar to your own. You have done a good job in predicting my response. Although various websites and experts often describe hypothetical STD risks for genital apposition without penetration, and sometimes for other exposures to genital fluids, in general the risk is extremely low -- usually zero -- if there is no overt penetration. If anything, your estimates 2 and 4 overestimate the risk; I would say zero for 1-4. For no. 5, if there really was penetration, there was some risk -- but even there, it would be very low, given the brevity of penetration. This applies to all the infections mentioned above, and also HIV and chlamydia, except there are no data by which to even guess at the per-exposure risk for pubic lice. However, crabs should be considered a minor medical inconvenience, not an important health risk, so not something you should worry about.

All risk estimates on this forum are our best judgments of the "REAL" risks, and so are these!

I hope this information is helpful. Let me know if anything isn't clear.

HHH, MD

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84 months ago

Thanks for the prompt reply and confirmation of some of my thoughts.

With regards to the penetration, realistically considering her position and movement it would be at most the rubbing of my penis on the outside of her vulva and possible accidental pushing against the vagina entrance and surrounding area. Definitely not full penetration and not even the whole penis head.

I'm not sure if my clarity changes the advice, but I would still prefer to stick to the cautious side with testing.

Thank you.

H. Hunter Handsfield, MD

84 months ago

I understood this entirely from your initial question. No change in my opinion or advice. You are free to be tested if you wish, but I wouldn't do it if somehow I were in your situation.---

83 months ago

Thanks again doctor, for your comments and restating your opinion.

By chance, I happened to speak to the masseuse since my last post, so I took the opportunity to seek seek some clarity about the body to body massage part of the event.

Whilst she couldn't remember exactly our encounter, she said that she follows a sort of 'routine' with each client and would normally stick to that. She said "I usually rub my genitals over the client's just to tease and stimulate, so some light contact would happen". She also said "no penetration without protection" and stated that any uncovered direct contact would be limited to "just light touching". Of course, as this is just her general approach and not an account of our encounter this isn't concrete proof, but it does somewhat confirm my initial thoughts that it was in fact just light touch.

This would probably increase my confidence to around 99% that this was just light touch (I'll always have a niggling doubt). Is testing, combined with the brevity, even more pointless than before?

I guess touch could still transmit herpes and syphilis, are there any other STIs by touch alone?

Would you advise any change in behaviour with a regular partner?

It is now 1 week post exposure and I have zero symptoms.

Thank you again, for your time and patience.

H. Hunter Handsfield, MD

83 months ago

"Could" such light touch transmit herpes or syphilis? Maybe, but very doubtful. Bot these generally require the organism to be massaged into susceptible tissues. (For example, in infecting animals for purposes of research, herpes does not take hold by simply applying the virus to skin or genital tissues; the tissues must be abraded nearly to the point of bleeding. In human transmission, it probably doesn't require THAT level of contact vigor, but at the same time, light touch almost certainly is insufficient. So I would consider this zero risk for both infections. In other words, this additional info also does not change my opinions or advice. I do not advise any change in your sexual plans or practices with your regular partner.

That concludes the two follow-up comments and replies included with each question and so ends this thread. I hope the discussion has been helpful.

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