[Question #4815] Concerned after tantric

27 months ago
Hi and thanks for your time.
I went for tantric massage on 18th December with a lady I have started having monthly appointments with since September. The fee is £220ph for 90mins.
On 18 December she went further and allowed me to place the palm of my hand on her vagina and gently stimulate.
During the session she gave me body to body with the vagina rubbing over my body, legs, arms etc. The vagina did rub against my penis for sure but no penetration as I presume that I would certainly have noticed that.
She masterbated me throughout bringing me to edge of ejaculation and then stopping and she did this after touching her vagina with her fingers. Finally at the end she made me ejaculate with the hand job whilst the palm of my hand was on her vagina.
I am concerned that her vagina fluids could have got through any minor unnoticeable  abrasions such as from pubic shaving area or on my arms, legs, body or penis.
I woke up yesterday on day 24 after the incident with a fever of 38.1 degree all day with throaty chesty cough and same today. I am concerned of chance of HIV due to the experience and my current symptoms. Please could you provide your expert opinion on this scenario. Thanks. Brad.
Edward W. Hook M.D.
Edward W. Hook M.D.
27 months ago
Welcome back to our Forum.  On this occasion I will be answering your question.  We typically review interactions with returning clients to provide us with context for our answers to new questions.  I note that this is your 5th question, the most recent being about 2 months ago and that the majority of the questions address the issue of non-penetrative sexual contact.  As you already know, there are a few, mostly uncommon STIs which are rarely transmitted through non-penetrative contact - these include syphilis, genital herpes and HPV however even for these STIs, the risk in non-penetrative sexual contact is exceedingly rare, for a number of reasons which include: that most people do not have STIs,;that even when they do, most exposures even penetrative exposures, do not lead to transmission; and that non-mucosal skin is far less susceptible to infection than thinner, more easily infected genital mucosa.  Other STIs including HIV are effectively never transmitted through non-penetrative sexual activity.  This my statement above re-affirms a comment Dr. Handsfield made in his last interaction with you when he said "In one of your previous questions a couple years ago, I described the possible transmission of skin-to-skin STDs (herpes, syphilis, HPV) by genital apposition without penetration, but also pointed out that such transmission is rare. Any risk is even lower for non-genital skin-to-skin contact. In addition, if you are in the US or other industrialized country, the chance your massage partner had active syphilis is very low...."

Thus, in direct answer to your question there is no meaningful risk for HIV from any possible contact that may have occurred between your masseuse's genital secretions and any abrasions or wounds which might have been present from shaving or from contact with other abrasions.  Further, I should add that cough is not a sign of recently acquired HIV.  I see no reason for concern and no need whatsoever for testing for HIV or any other STI in relationship to the scenario you have described.  I hope this reply will be helpful to you.  EWH
---
27 months ago
Thank you kindly for your feedback. I probably would not have thought twice about it this time and indeed I didn’t until this fever hit on day 24 after the event. I have temperature of between 38.1 and 38.6 with cough and now bit of sore throat from coughing and so it worried me of ARS.
So this is not how ARS presents on symptoms? Also is ARS normally sooner than 24 days.
Again my mind just keeps going back to did my penis head urethra opening make gliding contact with her vagina as she rubbed up and down and therefore could this have been HIV risk. I must try to relax and accept your response as expert if that is your final view and not let my anxiety over this run wild.
Would appreciate your final view following this extra info. Thanks.
Edward W. Hook M.D.
Edward W. Hook M.D.
27 months ago
Thanks for your follow-up.  I can understand how your fever might have caused concern.  The ARS most typically occurs 7-21 days following an exposure (although rarely it can occur later) when circulating HIV virus levels in the body are very high and antibodies are beginning to be formed.  It has the characteristics of a bad flu-like illness with high fevers, severe sore throat and severe muscle and/or joint aches.  Cough is NOT at all typical of the ARS.  

As for your concerns about incident entry to her secretions into your urethra despite the absence of penetration, this just does not happen.  By way of example, it is for this reason that there is no risk from mutual masturbation without any covering or protection whatsoever in which it is quite typical for participants to get each others' genital secretions on one another yet this is considered safe, no risk sex by even the most conservative expert committees and organizations.  

Bottom line- still no risk, no reason for testing.  I hope your cough gets better soon but can assure you that it is not a manifestation of HIV or any other STI acquired from the encounter you described.  EWH
---
27 months ago
Thank you for your feedback. I have started to panic again as I just had appointment with Dr who also operates sexual health private centre. He suggested that if there was vaginal fluid around her vagina and it got around the urethra and then the lady gave me vigorous hand job it could have been forced into urethra and therefore contract HIV. However he suggests sane that dry chesty cough is not what is seen with ARS. However it has got me worrying again hence coming back to get your opinion on this view? Thanks
Edward W. Hook M.D.
Edward W. Hook M.D.
27 months ago
 I vehemently disagree with the doctor who you saw.  No one has ever gotten infected with HIV in this way.  No change in my assessment or recommendations.  

This is my 3rd response to your questions.  This thread will be closed later today.  EWH
---
27 months ago
Apologies and thanks for your feedback. Would you be also able to confirm that it is correct that a chesty throaty cough where you have coughing fit after full breath in and out is also NOT what happens with ARS. This is my symptoms that I have fever along with this cough especially at night.
Edward W. Hook M.D.
Edward W. Hook M.D.
27 months ago
Another repetitive question.  As I said above - "Cough is NOT at all typical of the ARS. "

Closing the thread now.  EWH
---