[Question #5300] Question about a Recent Exposure !! Brief Kissing & Clarifications

24 months ago
Hello Dr Hook & Dr HHH

I met a high end Moroccan Escort in a Dubai Club, she was on resident visa. We spent he night and ONLY thing that happened was some very brief closed mouthed kissing and open mouthed kissing for a couple of seconds, that too she was forcing her tongue in my mouth (THIS WAS VERY BRIEF). Nothing else happened apart from this, no oral, no vaginal, no anal. Also i keep biting my lip skin and my lip slin was not intact if that makes a difference.

Also i have read through several posts and i know that you have answered that even vigorous kissing is NOT a Risk.

But what i read in this [Question #4488] Kissing] has got me scared and hence here are my questions:

  1. I had a bone grafting dental surgery and sinus lift 4 weeks back and a root canal a week back.- Does this put me at risk with the exposure described above?
  2. Do i need to test?
  3. Can i have unprotected sex with my wife without worry?
Edward W. Hook M.D.
Edward W. Hook M.D.
24 months ago
I'm having trouble accessing question 4488 but I am entirely confident that irrespective of what is said, there is no risk for HIV whatsoever from the activities you describe.  I suspect you are once again taking things our of context and amplifying a statement made in the past to the point where your conclusion is not logical.  From your multiple prior posts we do know that you do tend to worry needlessly.  In answer to your questions:

1.  No, dental surgery including bone grafting a month ago does not change things.  Still no risk, no need for concern, no medical need for testing.
2.  See above, no need for testing at all.
3.  Yes, nothing about the events you describe indicate any reason for concern related to unprotected sex with your sife.

Hope this helps. EWH
24 months ago
Thank You Dr. Appreciate it. Will Move on :)
Edward W. Hook M.D.
Edward W. Hook M.D.
24 months ago
Great.  Thanks  EWH---
24 months ago
Hi Dr

Sorry to come back here again I was doing all fine with your answers until i read this on thebody.com


Below are my questions:

1. I had 2 extractions and bone grafting surgery 5 weeks before my kissing exposure. How long does it take for the dental skin to reseal after a surgery for transmission to not occur?

2. I still have severe sensations in the neighbouring tooth because of the bone loss...does that mean there is a route for transmission or a hole in my gums for the virus to transmit?

3. I had a root canal in one tooth next to the bone graft 1 week before the kissing exposure...does that pose a risk?

4. What has freaked me out is that the Dr Bob recomended testing and said the risk is negligible and not zero from kissing?

These would be my last questions...i m freaking out dr as i m married and have a child.

Please help me understand this i m sure i m not the first one with a kissing exposure with such dental work.

Edward W. Hook M.D.
Edward W. Hook M.D.
24 months ago
I'm perplexed that you found this 9 year old interaction worrisome.  Dr. Bob indicated that the risk from this exposure was "negligible" and that the person should expect a negative result if tested.  This is essentially the same response that I give you- different experts use different terms - negligible- non-existent-zero risk, they are all essential the same.  My answer is not different- you are not at risk for HIV even if the person you kissed was HIV infected which is unlikely.  No change in my assessment or advice.  I would however add to my earlier answer- stay of the internet- much of the information there is out of date, taken out of context or just plain wrong ( this is not to say that I disagree with the advice that Dr. bob provided that client 9 years ago).  

1.  You are talking about a no risk event which has never been shown to occur.  Thus I cannot  tell you how long the interval is until Transmission will not occur.  Following oral surgery healing is very rapid.  Four weeks is plenty of time to have healed.
2.  No
3.  No
4.  See my comment above. You are over reacting to his choice of words.

You are correct, you are by no means the first person to be in this situation.  Even when kissing persons KNOWN to be infected (your partner was not known to be and was unlikely to have HIV), no transmissions have EVER been demonstrated.  I urge you to take a deep breath, relax and stay off the internet.  You are not at risk for HIV.  EWH
24 months ago
Thank you Dr...Highly Reassuring...Will finally move on...Your the best !!
24 months ago
Hello Dr Hook

I have moved on with your replies and also after reading numerous replies on deep kissing on this forum, medhelp, nhs and others.

But after reading 100s of these posts probably 1000s the sense i get is while you, dr sean, dr jose and others confidently say that deep kissing whether with bleeding gums, open sores, cracked lips, blisters, is not a risk for HIV with no need for testing, in a lot of posts (Not All) that i read where Dr HHH has replied gives an impression of uncertainty with words like "slight risk" or "transmission can probably occur" with deep kissing "but is very rare" or things like "No one can ever prove that kissing cannot transmit HIV".  Not just me but a lot of other posters feel that way which may trigger a lot of uncalled anxiety. Below are some examples such posts for your attention:

  1. https://www.medhelp.org/posts/HIV---Prevention/Deep-kissing-Mutual-Masturbation/show/256440
  2. [Question #4488] Kissing (you can find this question by searching for "kissing" in the search bar) 5 months ago
  3. [Question #4503] Clarification (you can find this question by searching for "kissing" in the search bar) 5 months ago
  4. https://www.medhelp.org/posts/HIV---Prevention/HIV-Risk-Assessment/show/1837576
  5. https://www.medhelp.org/posts/STDs/Kissing/show/247305
He also recommended testing for a kissing exposure in the above list if the partner was a known HIV+ and not on any treatment. Obviously there is no way to know this with any unknown person or csw whether they are positive or on treatment. (if it was only for peace of mind of the poster then it is a different thing altogether.)

Just thought would let you know my thoughts and observations on reading several posts.

23 months ago
Would be great to have comments from both you Esteemed Professors.

The problem is with this whole HIV Euphoria, Stigma and Phobia most people i know including me are petrified to enjoy having any sexual activity...cause when you read different posts you feel there is nothing u can do which is risk free.

The whole charm of enjoying sex is lost with fear and risk attached with every other sexual activity. Having sex is a beautiful thing but with a threat of an HIV risk round the corner spoils everything and people like us chose abstinence instead rather than get into a crazy " what if" cycle even after a good sexual experience.

Is there a vaccine for HIV underway anytime soon?

Edward W. Hook M.D.
Edward W. Hook M.D.
23 months ago
You are over reacting.  Dr. Handsfield would agree with me and the others you have read, I assure you.  Please understand that all scientific data are estimates because mathematically no study can sample every possible exposure or event and new exposures happen every day.  The crucial element is the precision of the estimate.  HIV transmission will probably occur some day through kissing, just as it is theoretically possible that some day you will be struck by a meteor falling from space.  The fact however is that both events are so rare (and have not been observed by those who look for them) that for all practical/reasonable purposes, they will never happen.

If you are going to go around worrying about HIV every time you kiss someone, much less when you have sex with them, you have a real problem which is not going to be answered on this forum and would be a good thing to discuss with a trained mental health professional.  HIV is just not that common, it is hard to transmit when a person is exposed, and the sorts of contacts you describe are not something to worry about beyond taking a common sense approach to safe sex.  

This is my 3rd response to your questions.  As per forum guidelines, this thread will be closed shortly without further response.  I wish you the best.  EWH