[Question #6269] Blood draw zero risk for hiv hepatitis b c 40 years nurse infected

15 months ago
Post long as my doctors answers are INCLUDED 
Dear doc hook I took HUGE HELP from  my personal doctor , and I hope today you will agree as we used your wordings as well .  I will not be talking to any other doctor after this post so that I dont UNDO my doctor hard work 
My Worry today is blood draws from BUTTERFLY needle are no risk for hiv hepatitis b c Even if nurse has hiv hepatitis b c 

1) is it okay to ask nurse to show how the needle cap is removed from needle during blood draw and give me FULL view ,  This will give me confidence that nurse hands does not touch or prick the needle . 

My doctor says no risk for hiv hepatitis b c . And you can surely ask the nurse to show you how the needle cap/cover Is removed from the needle . Asking nurse will not compromise the safety of blood draw and nurse will not get confused distracted by this request . Nurse will easily be able to show you how the cap is removed  by giving you full view nesdle inisde the cap and you can see how the cap is removed from the needle and nurse will  not prick or touch the needle . 

Some words taking by you doc hook so answer cannot change . I’m sure doctor hunter will agree with you 
2) due to excessive reading I scared myself ( please note I am not talking about hollow part of needle but the outer side of needle itself the needle side / or bottom of needle .   )  I wanted to know if nurse has  a tear in glove and bleeding finger   . And once needle cap is removed  when nurse to inserting the needle if nurse bleeding  finger ( assuming nurse has a  exsisiting cut on finger and hole in glove ) got wet blood on needle outer / area of  the needle itself .  And nurse bleeding finger remains on the needle side/outer area  and needle is pushed into my arm for blood draw without removing the finger  . 

My doctor says even if nurse has hiv hepatitis b c , no risk for hiv hepatitis b c  when needle is being inserted in your arm even if nurse had tear /hole  in glove  a wet blood that got on needle outer area / needle side  even if nurse finger remains on the needle . And new wet blood coming out of nurse  active bleeding finger is dead for hiv hepatitis b c with or with without air exposure because the viruses hiv hepatitis b c  are  noninfectious /dead as they leave the body . So therefore I cannot get infected and  no risk for hiv hepatitis b c even if nurse doesn’t remove the finger from needle and needle is inserted into me for blood draw 

This you agree on doctor hook as me and my doctor used your words on virus being non infectious 

2b) if nurse has hiv hepatitis b c ,  simple point any wet blood coming  OUT of nurse  active bleeding finger is nurse  has a cut is dead for hiv hepatitis b c even if that wet blood is not exposed To air .because these virsuses(hiv hepatitis b , c)  have left the body and can no longer infect me . 
Dead /non infectious Means: these viruses hiv hepatitis b c can not infect anymore and you cannot get hiv hepatitis b c . 

I want to focus on this point below in my follow up . 
3) MOST important CONCLUSION point  doc from your forum  whatever risks I Think may happen during blood draw  even if nurse has hiv hepatitis b c , if nurse touch needle with bleeding finger or if nurse makes a mistake when removing needle cap by pricking nurse own finger and does my blood draw because I feel I distracted the nurse by asking to show how the cap is removed from the needle 
Even we have these risks .  Can I say nobody gets hiv hepatitis b c from blood drawn in 40 years anywhere in the world so I won’t be first  . 
So bottom line then I can ask nurse to show how the cap is removed from needle and not worry about nurse bleeding finger .  

H. Hunter Handsfield, MD
H. Hunter Handsfield, MD
15 months ago
Welcome to the forum. Thanks for your confidence in our services. As stated on the forum's introductory pages, users do not select the moderator who responds to their questions. Dr. Hook and I have worked closely together for more than 3 decades and our perspectives and advice never vary significantly from one to the other.

There's a lot of information in your question, but it boils down to the fact that nobody in the US has acquired HIV or other blood borne infections (like viral hepatitis) from having blood drawn, at least not in the last 30-40 years. Blood draw equipment is designed to prevent re-use, and there simply are no health care providers today likely to attempt to re-use needles (butterfly or other types) on different patients. This is true even if the person drawing blood has one of these infections. (Indeed, absence of risk is the reason that there are no requirements or standards that suggest health care providers be tested for HIV, hepatitis B and C, or other blood borne infections. Not one infected person is know to have transmitted to any patient, through blood drawing, surgery, or any other patient contact. (The one exception, 20-30 years ago, was a dentist with HIV, several of whose patients became infected. There was evidence he had intentionally injected his patients with his own serum, but he died before criminal charges were filed.)

So your doctor is correct. Don't worry about the biological explanations, i.e. whether the viruses die on air exposure (probalby not, at least not instantly), and so on. Also don't worry about the details of how the nurse or lab employee draws you blood, even whether or not s/he wears gloves, how they clean your skin with alcohol, etc. None of these things make any difference. (The main reason health care providers wear gloves during certain procedures, such as blood drawing, is not to protect patients, but to protect themselves from contact with patients' blood or body fluids.) Since such transmissions are not known to have occurred, you certainly will not be the first.

In short, I agree with your doctor. No risk and no worries. I hope these comments are helpful. Let me know if anythnign isn't clear.

HHH, MD
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15 months ago
Hello doctor hunter I hope you are well I would like to clarify one two points if you can help and can you see point number 3 I want to use that during blood draw . 

1Well you say you agree with doctor hook actually his verbal style says assuming nurse has hiv hepatitis b c , 

  hiv hepatitis b c are dead once outside the body with or without air exposure so even if nurse has a bleeding cut on finger any wet blood leaving nurse bleeding finger is just simply dead for hiv hepatitis b c . With or without air exposure 


And My doctor gave me these notes because we used dr hooks info from medhelp . So may I just follow my doctors advice On virus is dead if nurse has bleeding finger on viruses hiv hepatitis b c  being dead with or without air exposure.  This INFO has been taken by doctor hook as he says viruses became non ifectious  for hiv hepatitis b c . I will be returning to my doctor after this consult 
So this gave me great relief that I won’t have to worry about nurse hands anymore 

2) one thing can I see how the needle cap is removed during blood draw my Doctor says absolutely you can and it’s safe nurse is a professional and won’t prick herself while removing needle cap . With the needle inside even I made Thai request to the nurse during blood draw. This is a must for me my doctor says you. Can ask all you want 


3) I want to say something very important what you say 

You say nobody gets gets hiv hepatitis b c from blood draw  procedure so when I’m sitting during blood draw . Even if I fear nurse has hiv hepatitis b c and well I imagine nurse touched needle or prick herself  when  removing needle cap because I asked the nurse to show needle cap and I fear nurse gets distracted and might make a mistake . 

Or well nurse just has bleeding cut on finger  and nurse touched needle side base and needle got inserted in for blood draw . Even if I have these risks can I remember yours words that we cannot get hiv hepatitis b c from blood draw if  I worry about these things during blood draw this way I’ll just keep saying no matter what I said to nurse or no matter what  risks I think happened during blood draw , I cannot get hiv hepatitis b c from blood draw and I’m
Safe . 

Any risk I can think of during blood draw whatever comes to my mind . whatever I said to nurse  that nurse got distracted and made Mistakes during blood draw or whatever  Additional risks fear I have during blood draw . On nurse bleeding finger touching needle. 

Can I just say I cannot get hiv hepatitis b c from blood draw and just move on after the blood draw .  With whatever risks during blood draw I come up with . Especially if I fear nurse gets distracted if I asked nurse to show how the needle cap is removed from needle . 

H. Hunter Handsfield, MD
H. Hunter Handsfield, MD
15 months ago
As I said, the biological reasons don't matter, i.e. whether or when the virus dies on exposure to air. If such infections never happen, why worry about the reasons? (I can assure you Dr. Hook would agree with these comments.)

Your other questions also do not change my opinions or advice. This is nothing to worry about and I encourage you to entirely disregard your fears of blood borne infections from having blood drawn. If you find yourself still obsessed by all this, despite the reasoned, science based reassurance you have had both from your doctor and on this forum, you might consider professional counseling. It is not normal to remain so obsessed and fearful in this situation. I suggest it from compassion, not criticism.
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15 months ago
Dear doc thank you for the reply .  The second post title “request”s just a comment not a question so you can read that later 

1)  I will not be bothered about if these viruses are alive or not anymore that I understood ! 

However below I want these both point addressed in your reply so that I get 100 percent confident as you have a huge impact on me as you know this is the last reply 
Can you just address point 2 and 3 ,4   Using your idea even if this risk were to happen still no risk for hiv hepatitis b c because we can’t these viruses from blood draw 

2) so when I go for blood draw and assuming nurse has hiv. Hepatitis b c and I ask nurse to show me how the needle cap from needle  is removed and I fear I distracted the nurse and I think  nurse touched or pricked her self when removing needle cap . 

 Answer : I will say to myself it’s fine to ask the nurse to show needle cap and even if  I think  that nurse prick herself because maybe I distracted the nurse by asking this  just say ignore this risk  and say nobody gets hiv hepatitis b c from blood draw procedure and say to yourself you cannot get hiv hepatitis b c from this risk If it were to happen .

Note :can you add the above point to your reply ? With your words added thank you 


3) assuming nurse has hiv hepatitis b c and If nurse has bleeding finger because of a cut and hole in glove and got wet  blood got on needle body / outer area of needle when nurse was inserting the needle in vein Because  nurse hands slipped forward from wings of butterfly needle and then nurse bleeding finger touched and got blood on outer area of needle .  Even if nurse got wet blood on needle  and needle got pushed in my vein for blood draw and I don’t know if that blood coming out of nurse finger was exposed to air or not 

answer : i will say still no risk for hiv hepatitis b c  even if this risk happened If nurse hands has slipped from the wings of butterfly needle ,touched and  got wet blood on needle because of nurse bleeding finger and wet blood  coming out of nurse bleeding finger was not exposed To air  as the needle is being inserted .Even with these risks I  will say no risk for hiv hepatitis b c because this is a blood draw procedure and nobody gets hiv hepatitis b c from blood draw . 


note: can you add the above answer as we’ll to your reply with your words added   please do add these words even if nurse bleeding finger slipped forward from the wings of the butterfly needle  and onto the needle no risk for hiv hepatitis b c 

4)bottom line : even if risks on point 2 and 3 during blood draw and also and new risks I think may occur  anything that I say I felt distracted the nurse or if nurse did something wrong during blood draw such as get blood on needle if nurse hands slipped during blood draw from wings and got blood on needle by touching needle .

Any risk I think happened during blood draw just say you cannot get hiv hepatitis b c during blood draw so whatever risks come to mind I’ll just say I can’t get hiv hepatitis bc during blood draw 
This way I will never fear blood draw and not need COUnseling 

15 months ago
Request below : 
Doctor hunter it’s been a pleasure talking to you may I Request that you tel me to ignore my fears in point 2 and 3 even if think they were to happen during blood draw or any other risks during blood draw . 

And if may I ask if anything not clear is it possible that I Nay I ask only point 2 and 3 someday again from you . I will surely not be asking if virus is alive or not that I understood 

H. Hunter Handsfield, MD
H. Hunter Handsfield, MD
15 months ago
2) Yes, if the nurse put her blood onto the needle, you might get infected. But there is no chance that would happen.

4) Your "bottom line" statement is correct.

That concludes this thread. Please note the forum does not permit repeated questions on the same topic. Thank you. I hope the discussion has been helpful.
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