[Question #6669] Hangnail and Masturbation

66 months ago

Hi Dr Hook and Dr HHH

Right to the point. I fingered a woman after pulling a hangnail with my teeth. It bleed and then while in my drunken relaxed state, I fingered her maybe 30 mins later. It stung a bit so then I stopped.

I got 2 tests done. Ab/Ag Combo test at a lab. Both non reactive at 6 and 9 weeks.

I have read the new updates on CDC of 45 days and I have read a lot of posts on here as well. I even read the 2 articles from the authors of cdc on the new timelines and tests that Dr HHH put on here. But even in the articles it said something interesting, even though they say 44.3 days is basically conclusive. “After the baseline testing, a test at 4-6 weeks and 3 months is recommended”. That confused the heck out of me.

1) why do they recommend testing at 3 months when stats and articles state 99% at 44.3 days? Is it for the older tests that they are saying this?

2) Can I say I am good without testing any further with these 2 tests I took?

3) I know I read the “cuts, scrapes etc” don’t matter and you can not get hiv from fingering a vagina. Is that because the extracted hangnail does not give access to the bloodstream (not deep enough of a cut or opening)? Or is it something else?

4) I have a girlfriend, and I don’t want my regretful drunken night to affect her at all. Is it safe to assume she is not at risk?

5) is there any additional information you can give me that would be worth knowing?

Thanks

Edward W. Hook M.D.

66 months ago

Welcome to the forum and thanks for your question. Thanks as well for reviewing other posts and the articles you mention. I will do my best to provide context since I am confident that you already know that the event you describe was zero risk for acquisition of HIV (no one has ever gotten HIV from masturbation of another persons, even with a "fresh" would such as your hangnail lesions or a recent scrape on their fingers - not ever). It is important to remember that, as a Federal Agency which takes the stance that they must be conservative in their recommendations, CDC would rather be overly conservative in their estimates and recommendations than take a chance of being wrong, even once. As a result the make the sort of cautionary statements that you mention. In reply to your specific questions:

1) why do they recommend testing at 3 months when stats and articles state 99% at 44.3 days? Is it for the older tests that they are saying this?

Pease see my comment. In persons who have not taken anti-HIV medications I am unaware of any cases of HIV which took more than 6 weeks (42-45 days) to become positive and, in fact I know of no cases which I have seen or heard of in which tests taken at 4 weeks are not conclusive.

2) Can I say I am good without testing any further with these 2 tests I took?

Yes. Personally, as noted above, I do not even think you needed tests but certainly the test results you mention are conclusive. There is no need for further testing.

Correct. The body seals off access to the target cells for HIV almost immediately. Further, remember that with such lesions the direction of any blood flow is out of the body, not inward as occurs with higher risk activities such as injection into the body.

4) I have a girlfriend, and I don’t want my regretful drunken night to affect her at all. Is it safe to assume she is not at risk?

Correct. Nothing about the encounter you describe suggests any risk to her from you.

5) is there any additional information you can give me that would be worth knowing?

Not that comes to mind. I hope that the information I have provided is helpful. Please don't worry.

EWH

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66 months ago

Thank you for your response. Definitely the misinformation out there from “reputable” sites can cause any of us to second or triple guess everything.

A few follow up questions for knowledge and peace of mind.

1. Obviously we know no test is absolutely perfect, so I’m guessing that’s the reason why CDC and other recommend a second test. Your expert opinion, would you recommend a second test as a confirmation as I did at 10 weeks? (It was 10 week test, I counted the weeks wrong)

2. As stated by studies, Ag develops and then Ab develops to clear out the Ag in the body in full. Would you agree, especially by 10 weeks for my scenario, that either Ag or Ab would DEFINITELY be detectable?

3. Based on plenty of posts on here with people worried about hangnails, bleeds, cuts, scrapes, etc. What would you consider as even a potential transmission option in the hand and/or fingers? Would it be something more on a “need medical attention” situation?

Thank you in advance.

Edward W. Hook M.D.

66 months ago

1. Your 9 week test is conclusive and current tests for HIV are among the most reliable tests in all of medicine. I see no need for additional testing related to the event you describe and feel that the CDC recommendation you found it overly conservative I am not a betting person but I would bet you al lot of money that if you test again and have not had other exposures your repeat HIV test would again be negative. I see no need for further testing.

2. See my comment above. The antigen in these tests is a protein from the HIV virus. at any time beyond 6 weeks tests would definitely be positive if you had been infected.

3. As I mentioned in my original reply, your masturbation of a partner was an entirely no risk event with no test for testing at all. EWH

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66 months ago

Good to know both my tests at 6 and 10 weeks are considered conclusive. I tested the second time because I heard about doing a confirmation test. Probably tested earlier than the “recommended timeframe” as some say of 12 weeks but after reading the information, I felt 10 weeks was more than enough wait time.

Last couple questions:

1. I do not feel I was bleeding from the time of masturbation. But overall, if there was no bleeding, that means the body sealed off the hangnail cut giving no access to the bloodstream, correct? Doesn’t matter how recent the tear is?

2. From what it seems, the only access for HIV is unprotected vaginal or anal sex, shared needles and mother/child?

3. Lab tests that I have done about “4th Gen” Combo with Rflx speak about serum or plasma. Is one better to be tested than the other or is it the same but just different tests?

4. Previously 4wks was considered conclusive and then due to new studies, 6wks became the new conclusive. Do you feel this is the longest wait time that will be listed for 4th Gen lab generated tests? Or is there a possibility it may be changed again in the future to longer window periods?

5. I trust you sir that you say my 6 and 10 week tests are conclusive and will not test any further. If I am a single man again in the future and I come across a time for testing again (hoping I will never need to again), it is agreed that a “4th Gen” Combo Lab Test through the vein at 6 weeks is a one and done test?

Sir, I know you have a lot on your plate and still taking the time to answer these questions and I thank you whole heartedly for your detailed answers. These will obviously be my final questions. Be blessed sir and thank you again.

Dr HHH, thank you for all you do as well sir.

Edward W. Hook M.D.

66 months ago

Final responses.

1. No risk means no risk. Time frame is irrelevant and your test results are conclusive.

2. Correct

3. No, results for serum and plasma are equivalent

4. I doubt that it will change again. Even the 6 week recommendation is conservative. 99.9% of results are conclusive at 4 weeks.

5. Correct

I'm glad my responses have been helpful. This will complete this thread which will be closed now. Take care. Please don't worry. EWH

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