[Question #6699] Scary symptoms after 5 weeks and 13 weeks negative 5th gen HIV test

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65 months ago

Hi Doctor, Thank for the precious service you are providing to tormented soul like mine.

I had protected sex with a female, but cunnilingus was not protected, days after the act dentist confirms my gum is bleeding. 3 weeks after I develop mild sore throat that last 4 weeks. 5 weeks after I get a posterior cervical lymph node (diagnosed via ultra sound as non specific lymph node)

I tested HIV negative at 5 week via blood taken from vein. From 5 week to 13 week I had a bunch of symptoms (night sweats, burning and tingling sensation body wide, bilateral ulnar nerve entrapment, body wide fasciculation). I Tested at 92 days 5th gen Ag/Ab HIV Negative, I was happy and ready to move and promise to never put myself in such a predicament.

Now I still get fasciculation body wide, at 20 weeks post exposure I develop dry mouth and white tongue till now, what is making me very scared is the white patch on the lateral side of my tongue and on the internet they said it is oral hairy leukoplakia and it is due to EBV which is strongly linked to HIV.I saw a ORL he confirms the white patch on my inner cheeks are leukoplakia, he does not seems to concern since I had two tests. I had a CBC 3 weeks ago my neutrophils ANC is at 1.4 which is low, I had one 3 months ago it was at 2.

FYI at 4 weeks post exposure I tested negative for (Syphilis, Chlamydia, Gonorrhea, hepatitis B), CMV IGG reactive but IGM non-reactive. I had an EBV test IGM was negative test, but they did not mention anything for IGG, it seems it was not requested.

1- Can you assess my risk? I am very scared of the white patch on the side of my tongue

2- the female tested 13 days after the act for STDs and HIV and she was negative, but she is promiscuous and been with at least 3 different guy in less than 3 month before the exposure

3- The duo test was performed at the same lab, I am scared they were not able to detect HIV

4- I used a topical Steroid HydroCortisone valerate 0.2% 15g for a moderate psoriasis during the three months of the test, do you think that could affect the result?

5- What is the association of HIV and low neutrophils? do you think a neutrophils ANC 1.4 is a sign of a weak immune system? I am feeling healthy aside of my dry mouth and tongue issue

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65 months ago
3- The Two duo tests were performed at the same lab, I am scared that they may have missed it or my body did not produce enough Ab or my Ag were two low to be detected by the test******

6- Should i have another test at a different Lab? Next Friday will be six months since the exposure.

My life is miserable with constant fear for around 6 months, I only sleep for 4 hours at night. It was a bad judgement that I deeply regret, the only reason that I don’t test at another lab yet is because deep inside of me I’m scared of the inevitability, I know I have two tests that say I’m negative but the symptoms and the timing are just too weird and I had never been that sick before. 

I did not have any other sexual Intercourse since that exposure. I don’t smoke and was not on any medication that could cause the white tongue, except before the onset of the dry mouth I was taking 2 to 4 Tylenol 500mg a day for about two weeks for a sciatica pain.

I’m in canada, I tested at a lab named Dynacare that had been bought by LabCorp, do you know anything about their reliability?
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Edward W. Hook M.D.
65 months ago

Welcome to the Forum.  I'll do my best to help.  It is clear from your post that you regret the encounter that you describe which occurred more than three moths ago.  I understand that but I can completely assure you that you did not acquire HIV or any other STI from that encounter.  Your tests prove this.  If your symptoms are troubling you other than in the context of your anxiety and concern over your misstep, then I recommend that you work with your own doctor to determine what the cause might be- it is not HIV.  In answer to your specific questions:

1- Can you assess my risk? I am very scared of the white patch on the side of my tongue.

Your risk was negligible.  Condom protected genital sex is safe sex and to my knowledge, there are no proven cases in which someone has acquired HIV from unprotected cunnilingus.  The testing she had proves that she was not infected and your own tests prove that you are not infected.  The white patch you describe is due to something other than HIV.

2- the female tested 13 days after the act for STDs and HIV and she was negative, but she is promiscuous and been with at least 3 different guy in less than 3 month before the exposure

See my comment above.  Her negative tests prove that she could not have infected you.

3- The duo test was performed at the same lab, I am scared they were not able to detect HIV

The tests are highly reliably.  The lab is a good lab or LabCorp would not have bought them.  Believe your results.

4- I used a topical Steroid HydroCortisone valerate 0.2% 15g for a moderate psoriasis during the three months of the test, do you think that could affect the result?

No

5- What is the association of HIV and low neutrophils? do you think a neutrophils ANC 1.4 is a sign of a weak immune system? I am feeling healthy aside of my dry mouth and tongue issue

This is a low normal ANC and should not concern you.  It does NOT suggest HIV.

6.  There is no reason whatsoever for further testing. 

I hope that these answers are helpful to you.  My sense is that you have been on the internet.  Please do not look for answers there as much of what is there is misleading.  EWH



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65 months ago
Thank you very much Doctor for your feedback and your answers are very helpful and are helping coping with my symptoms. You are so right Doctor, i've been to the internet which increases my fear. I would like to get your point of view on the points below.

1- The fact that she tested 13 days after the act is a good thing, but what if she was in her window period? The test she took couldn't detect it, since her test was not a RNA test, can we say undetectable= untransmittable for this scenario?  Or wouldn't she be highly contagious?
2- I used to believe that testing after 6 weeks with 4th/5th gen duo is foolproof in regard of HIV i.e. if there is no antigen there should be detectable antibody and vice versa. But my belief has been shaken since someone on Quora who claims to work at a 3rd gen HIV testing device company stated: "the level of antigen differs from person to person and may not be high enough to be detected by common antigen test in the duo, and the Antigen test is not as sensitive as the antibody test" he also stated: "it is better to test separately with antigen or antibody instead of doing the duo test because standalone test of either the antigen or antibody is more sensitive than the combined duo test". Honestly I don't believe it, as that would make the duo test useless, but please explain what do you think of that?
3- In one of the CDC article you and doctor HHH refer to use for the 6 weeks conclusiveness, it states that: "there could be a rare period after p24 has cleared but  before igM has become detectable thus a second window period", do you believe that?
4- I have a posterior cervical lymph node (length 15mm thickness 2.4mm) for over 20 weeks now, plus the white patches on the side of my tongue and the leukoplakia in my inner cheeks and the fasciculation body wide. These are too strong symptoms linked to HIV. 
5- The fact that my exposure was cunnilingus, can it be I did get exposed to a small amount of virus, thus the reason why my two 5th gen duo tests were non reactive within 92 days. Do you think the method or the quantity of exposed virus matter? Or no matter the quantity of virus infected, HIV will multiply once infected and should be detected by 6 weeks with a 5th gen blood test taken from the vein.

Thank you again Doctor!


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Edward W. Hook M.D.
65 months ago

Your follow-up questions in large part validate my impression that you are being misled by your internet searches.  None of them in any way change my assessment- your exposure was virtually no risk and that FACT has been validated by your test results.  I urge you to get over this and move on!  My replies to your internet fueled questions will be brief:

1.  This sort of "what if" question is unrealistic.  At 14 days her 4th generation test would have detected well over 50% of acute infections.  Remember, she had gotten this far without being infected.  The chance that she was in the window is much low than your chance of being hit by a meteorite falling from the sky.

2.  the statement you refer to in categorically incorrect and has been posted by someone who has a conflict of internet.  Ignore it.

3.  The CDC often uses statements like "in rare occasions" to make sure that they are never wrong.  While theoretically possible, from a practical standpoint there is no reason to worry about a 2nd window.

4.  Wrong!!!!  Most people with cervical lymphadenopathy, as well as hairy leukoplakia do not have HIV.  You are being misled by the internet.  Believe your test results not some internet myth!

5.  I have never seen or heard of anyone acquiring HIV from cunnilingus.  This is another "what if" question.  Believe your test results!!

I apologize is my response sound brusque but the questions you ask are sterling examples in internet generated paranoia which lead to all too much anxiety and concern.  I urge you to believe your test results and move forward.  If you have symptoms which concern you (like your possible hairy leukoplakia, instead of allowing the internet to amplify your unwarranted paranoia.  EWH

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65 months ago
Hi Doctor, thank you for your words of encouragement, moving forward is what I am trying to do, but each in every week or month there is  something new that pops up and you realize it is linked to HIV.

I understand my questions were repetitive, it is just you are the only ID doctor that I get the chance to chat with, so I took the opportunity to have all my questions and doubts cleared. 

I know you understand my fears, even when I have a very low risk, but the symptoms (persistent swollen lymph node, peripheral neuropathy, low neutrophils, dry mouth, white tongue, white/grey  patch in Inner cheeks, white patch on lateral side of tongue)are just too coincidental. I did not swallow her fluids and I spat, she did not reach climax either, but my bleeding gums is my fear.

I am trying to move forward and enjoy life, I will double check with the ENT this week and see what he thinks about the patch on the side of my tongue since they are getting larger and whiter.

 I’ve just have a new born and I wanna enjoy life, but due my selfishness and silly mistake I cannot enjoy to the fullest what was supposed to be the best moment of my life. 

My last questions will be:
1- is the HIV test check for all the sub types of the virus? on the result paper they stated no AB for HIV 1&2
2- After how many weeks the HIV 2 test is conclusive?
3- if somebody was truly infected would they have OHL in less than 5 months?

Thanks again for your service doctor Hook, you and doctor Handsfield are doing a very good service to the tormented souls.

I will keep on reading your feedbacks to keep telling myself to believe the science since I have two  negative tests.
 


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Edward W. Hook M.D.
65 months ago

Thank you for your thanks.  You really must stay off the internet and believe your tests.  In answer to your follow-up, somewhat repetitive questions (Einstein once said that to do the same thing again and again and expect different results is the definition of insanity.  My assessment is not going to change:

1- is the HIV test check for all the sub types of the virus? on the result paper they stated no AB for HIV 1&2
Yes, you have ruled out all forms of HIV.

2- After how many weeks the HIV 2 test is conclusive?
8 weeks

3- if somebody was truly infected would they have OHL in less than 5 months?
No, OHL in HIV occurs when persons have had the infection for some time (years).  Most persons with PHL DO NOT have HIV.

As you know, we provide up to three responses to each client. This is my 3rd and final response.  Further, I must point out that should you return to the forum with repetitive, anxiety-driven questions you question may be closed or deleted without a response.  Please don't worry.  You do not have HIV.  EWH
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