[Question #7172] HPV-STDs from massage incident

6 months ago
Hello Doctors,

I want to say thank you the service you provide, it is the best of the whole internet.

I've been trying to read to similar questions to save the fee and the question that has probably been asked before but as you would understand, one tends to think ones case is different  than others somehow.

2 days ago I visited a massage spa, the activities that took place were, i massaged her naked body, at some point she turned around and opened her vaginal lips and touched her vagina probably for about 10 seconds, I did not see any lesions, herpes, warts or syphillis, looked normal.

I asked her to wash her hands but she barely did, afterwards, she procceed to masturbate me with oil gently for 20 seconds until I climaxed.

my questions are:
1) I found a discrepancy on verbiage on dr HHH lately regarding HPV  and hand genital contact is possible now, he  suspects  or he believes this happens now, my question is, did something make you change your mind? did any new literature come to light?
2) I tried to be as careful as I could but I think she didnt wash her hands properly, could stds or HPV be still alive on her hand then transfered to my penis?
3) this was NOT hot or heavy petting, she did not masturbate or use secretions as she was not wet but she did touch her vagina for a few seconds, would HPV OR HSV be this sticky as to cling to a hand from a fleeting 10 second contact?
4) is there anything else I should be worried about from this incident? i dont want to be examining myself or worriying for a whole year to make sure I didnt get hpv from this exposure (the reasons why i worry about this common std is because it could expose myself to infidelity since my partner and me were virgins)

Thanks so much for your help


H. Hunter Handsfield, MD
H. Hunter Handsfield, MD
6 months ago
Welcome back to the forum. Thanks for your continuing confidence in our services.

Looking over your several previous questions (this is your fifth), it seems that with perhaps rare exceptions, you're very careful to have only safe sex for your non-marital encounters. Very good and very wise. But given those honorable and wise choices, you remain seriously over concerned about STD risks, with emphasis on HPV and herpes. To reemphasize the main take-home message, here's a quote from one of my replies almost 4 years ago:

I fear that you have failed to understand the main take-home messages from your two other threads. Among other things, my reply last time (when you were asking mainly about HPV) included this: "Without penetration of your penis into another person's vagina, rectum or mouth, you aren't at risk. STDs are not transmitted by such exposures as hand-genital contact (and certainly not foot-genital contact!), kissing, etc."

That remains the case, and our perspectives on the zero to low risk from hand-genital contact have not changed. And your obsession about it -- for which in at least one discussion I advised seeking professional counseling -- is evidenced by the time you seem to be spending on this forum, and perhaps other online sources, combing for details to reinforce your worries. To your specific questions:

1) You must be mininterpreting something I said. My perspectives on hand-genital contact, including no known risk for HPV, have not changed and to my knowledge have been entirely consistent. I might have stated that I can see a theoretical possibility, but that doesn't mean it actually happens and to my knowledge I have never seen a patient with HPV or any STD from hand-genital contact or fingering.

2-4) These basically re-ask the same question with different wording. I can think of no circumstances in which there would be a significant risk of STD transmission from hand genital contact, with or without hand washing etc. Your latest massge parlor adventure was risk free in regard to HPV and all STDs.

I hope these comments are helpful. I also hope they will eliminate any need for any more questions about STDs and non-penetrative genital sex. Let me know if anything isn't clear.

HHH, MD
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6 months ago
Hello Doctor,

you're absolutely right as usual, yes, I'm fixated on this and I resoluted to never ever step a foot on one of those places ever again.

I only wrote because from time to time you implied that you suspect some cases were transmited this way even if not frequently, I misunderstood your posts and hence why I needed to know if anything changed.

my last follow up question would be, would washing in any case have helped reduce the risk? I plan to attend the spa today to ask the worker if she washed her hands before touching my penis (I know this is extra but i will do it if you consider it necesary to make it low to no-risk)

I will disregard completely this episode if you consider under no extensive cirumstances or incredible bad luck this could have happened.

Thanks again and have a great weekend.
6 months ago
one last thing, i remembered you mentioned that hand genital contact explains some cases of hpv in virgins, this is what made me think you had found out new information regarding this, any further thoughts about this topic you wrote a few months ago will be appreciated!

that is all.
H. Hunter Handsfield, MD
H. Hunter Handsfield, MD
6 months ago
I may have speculated about hand-genital contact as an explanation for genital HPV in people who claim not to have had sex. However, that's all it was, speculation. I've also speculated that some cases may have come from entirely nonsexual sources. In the majority, probably there has been unacknowledged sex. Mistaken or false sexual histories are extremely common and easy to understand, given what we know about sexual stigma and what science has revealed in recent years about the fallibility of memory. This probably is more likely than acquisition of HPV by heavy petting.

Washing after sex can't hurt in preventing STDs. But since the risk is so low, it probably makes little difference.
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6 months ago
I hope this counts as my last follow up question,

i read on average, hpv can be infectious for about 2 years while the system clears it up, in the case of warts (the hpv im worried about) they will show within 6 monhts,

Im adding up the odds for the masseuse to have this hpv but being within the 6 months where nothing appears, how unlikely would this be? assuming she didnt have them frezzed off (which i didnt see the wart itself or any scar from freezing.

this adding to the low already risk odds from hand genital, would you agree this is really close if no zero risk?

last follow up and im logging out, not planning to check this website or ask more questions in the future, however i wish to say thanks again for all!
H. Hunter Handsfield, MD
H. Hunter Handsfield, MD
6 months ago
Yes, it really is zero risk or very close to it. (Does it help to hear the same thing the tenth time?) Therefore, the quesitons about duration of HPV infections is irrelevant.

This bveing your fifth question on the forum, all asking pretty much the same questions applied to different exposures, it should be your last. The forum does not permit repeated questions on the same topic, and future new questions along these lines may be deleted without reply and without refund of the posting fee. This policy is based on compassion, not criticism, and is designed to reduce temptations to keep paying for questions with obvious answers. In addition, experience shows that continued answers tend to prolong users' anxieties rather than reducing them. Finally, such questions have little educational value for other users, one of the forum's main purposes. Thanks for your understanding.

That said, I do hope this discussion will help you move along and stop worrying. If it doesn't and you find yourself still having these concerns, please consider the repeated advice we have given about professional counseling. Your thinking about these issues is not normal:  without an underlying psychological issue, people don't continue to worry like this in fhe face of the reasoned, science based reassurance you have received repeatedly on this forum. I hope you'll take this seriously. Good luck.

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