[Question #7228] HIV risk from frottage with menstural blood

6 months ago
Hi,

I have had an encounter which I am concerned about and I would appreciate your professional advice.
I am aware that frottage is a no HIV risk encounter, 
however recently a woman and I preformed frottage just as she began her period(menstural time).

I was not wearing a condom and I have a circumised penis.
The woman was rubbing her bare vagina on all over my penis, 
including urethra and penis head and penis shaft. 
Some of her menstrual blood came in contact with my urethra and my penis head. 
She was above me and the urethra and penis head were pressed against her vagina, 
but not penetrating her. 

However, I am concerned that because of the close proximity, 
some of the blood would have still carried infectious/viable HIV, 
and therefore when her blood dripped down, 
it made HIV transmission possible through my exposed urethra and penis head.

I think that my urethra and penis head and her vagina formed an environment with no air at all,  
from being pressed so close together, 
then this would have kept the HIV virus in her blood infectious and make HIV infection possible 
through particularly my urethra and also through my penis head.

What do you think is the HIV risk from my incident which I have described above?


Thank you for your help and great work.

Edward W. Hook M.D.
Edward W. Hook M.D.
6 months ago
Welcome to the Forum and thanks for your question.  Even in the situation you describe with a partner who was beginning her period, frottage would be a no risk event.  Further unless you know otherwise, it is statistically quite unlikely that she had untreated HIV.   FYI, the amount of HIV present in menstrual blood is about equivalent to the amount present in vaginal secretions of the same person.  Thus frottage with a partner who is beginning to menstruate is no more risky than frottage at other times.

I would add that it is quite unlikely that any of her blood or vaginal secretions would have dripped into your penis during the encounter you describe.

I see no need for concern or for testing related to the exposure you describe.  EWH
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5 months ago
Hi,

Thank you for your reply.

When I saw the blood on my penis during frottage I realized the woman was 
heavy menstruing.

There was a massive amount of blood on penis urethra which I saw, and  I concern 
that this high amount of blood could  go into urethra and cause HIV infection.

Even that there was a serious amont of blood on penis urethra during frottage, 
you still believe  that there is no reason for concern and no risk for HIV infection.

I would appreciate your professional explanations to why HIV infection is not 
possible with this case. As I wrote, what scares me is the high amount of blood on penis urethra during frottage.

Thank you for your help.

Regards.
Edward W. Hook M.D.
Edward W. Hook M.D.
5 months ago
The amount of blood has not been known to play a role in transmission through external exposure.

Frottage has been among the sex acts studied in large studies of HIV prevention and transmission in literally hundreds of thousands of persons.  As one who has Done research, attended scientific meetings regarding HIV, and read the medical literature on the topic for the nearly 40 years since this epidemic began, I have never heard of HIV being acquired through frottage.  I’m confident that many of these exposures took place in situations where one partner was menstruating.  You are not going to be the first to be infected.

If you need to prove to yourself that you were not infected, you should test.  Testing with currently available 4th generation HIV will be more than 99% reliable 4 weeks after your exposure and entirely reliable 6 weeks after the exposure.

EWH
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5 months ago
Hi,

Thank you for your help and professional explanations.

You have helped me ease my mind. 

I understood now my last case is no HIV risk. 

As you said even though there was a fair amount of blood on my urethra during frottage, 
since the exposure\frottage was was external and no penetration was made HIV risk is zero.

Therefore I will just get tested the next routine yearly tests and not concern for this case,

All the best.



Edward W. Hook M.D.
Edward W. Hook M.D.
5 months ago
Great.  I agree with your plan.  Take care.  EWH
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5 months ago
Hi again Edward,

I just have another question regarding your last answer.
When you said : 

"The amount of blood has not been known to play a role in transmission through external exposure."

It means that also high amount of blood on urethra during frottage(like in my case),
can not cause HIV transmission through external exposure.

I just did not really understand this form of your wording.

Regards,

Edward W. Hook M.D.
Edward W. Hook M.D.
5 months ago

You have received three replies. I will provide a singe further response, then this thread will be closed as per Forum Guidelines.

Correct, large or small the amount of blood involved in this sort of exposure does not change the fact that what you describe is a NO RISK exposure. 

EWH

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5 months ago
Hi Edward,

Thank you for the reply, 

I now fully understand my scenario was NO HIV RISK from your explanations.

If my scenario is NO HIV RISK why do you still recommend  me go and have HIV test?

Quote from your answer : 

"If you need to prove to yourself that you were not infected, you should test.  Testing with currently available 4th generation HIV will be more than 99% reliable 4 weeks after your exposure and entirely reliable 6 weeks after the exposure."

Thank you for everything I appreciate it