[Question #7631] So streed and lost/ please help me
54 months ago
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Hello,
I'm really lost and need your help , i will be brief
* it started when i kissed someone (i knew is a no risk but i tested after 4, 6 and 8 weeks)
* after the last test, i was supposed to close the topic but i didn't see the nurse change the needle so i started again to panic and got again several mouth ulcers . i did another combo test after 5 weeks.
* Again, after this test. i didn't see the nurse change her gloves. i was afraid if she had touched with that gloves some blood from previous patient and then touched cotton ball that she press in my arm to stop me bleeding. i read your answers in this site that it's a no risk event but i tested again ( and i regert this) because i had also mouth ulcers and oral thrush . After this test, i also got another idea in my head. please assess my risk during this following blood draw.
I asked the nurse to change the gloves in front me, she was comprehensive and also gave me a new needle to open it. i unfortunately dropped it (was still packed). i picked it up and gave it back to her, she told me we have to change it (in order to not stress because of it). after one week i have also two new mouth ulcers.
1- what if there was some blood on the floor and when i picked up the first needle and i picked also blood and gave it to the nurse (i mean her gloves got soiled) is there any risk after this event ? for exemple when she press the cotton ball to stop me bleeding ? i didn't see any fresh blood. but what if there was some spots.
2- is my senario could includ any other risk,(picking up needle from the floor and then use the same gloves) ? she didn't touch the sharp part of the needle
3- i am going to get married next week and i'm totally lost because of this stroy ( i postponed it lot of time), may i get married and have unprotedtec sex with her ?
4- is any another test required?
5- i have two mouth ulcers, should i be worried?
i really want to move on, please help me. Many thanks for everything you are doing.
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H. Hunter Handsfield, MD
54 months ago
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Welcome to the forum. Thanks for your confidence in our services.
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The quick answer is that you are at zero risk for HIV (and any other blood borne infection) from the events described. You did not need any testing at all, and certainly do not need more testing. There is absolutely no chance your oral ulcers are due to a new HIV infection: that is never the only symptom; there are plenty of other causes; and as I said, you were not at risk. I have the feeling you either misunderstand blood borne and sexual exposures and the risk they carry for HIV, or that you feel compelled to limit risk to an extent that you are inclined to be over-worried about it. (Otherwise why would you test for HIV 3 times after an event that you "knew is a no risk"?
You mention the blood-draw nurse and gloves a couple of times. You misunderstand the reason for gloving by health care personnel. It is not to protect the patient, not at all-- but to protect the health care worker in case of contact with the patient's blood or body fluids. For the patient, blood drawing is equally safe even with no gloving at all. And with or without gloves, even if the worker had contacted another patients blood and then draw yours, there is no way the other blood could get into your bloodstream or otherwise infect you. The only way anyone EVER caught HIV or viral hepatitis from blood drawing has been when the same syringe and needle were used on more Han one patient without adequate sterilization -- never once known to occur from the circumstances you have described.
Those comments pretty well cover your individual questions, but to assure no misunderstanding:
1) "What if there was some blood on the floor...? No risk at all, no worries.
2) Could this scenario cause any other risk? No.
3) There is absolutely no risk for your wife or any other sex partner on account of these events.
4) Do not have any more tests.
5) I can't comment on the cause of your mouth ulcers, except there is no chance they are due to HIV. The most common cause is aphthous stomatitis (canker sores). But see a doctor about this if the problem continues or you remain concerned about it.
I hope these comments are helpful. Let me know if anything isn't clear.
HHH, MD
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54 months ago
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Hello Sir,
Many thanks for your answer.
i didn't well understand this part " or that you feel compelled.... "knew is a no riks?""
Indeed, my problem is Symptoms. for exmeple after the first event (kissing) i got several mouth canker sore after reading them on net (that they are sign of HIV Infection) so i stressed a lot and tested three time to exlude ARS. may it be somatization ? reading symptoms on net and then getting them?
once (after a blood draw) i had a swollen lymph node in my chin (right side), i took antibiotics and i healed. just after i got oral thrush, so i tested again to exlude ARS.
i got into a vicious cercle before my wedding, and i am tottaly lost. please help to break it cuz i blindly trust you.
I kindly ask you sir to look well into detail of my last blood draw (as it is the last one before my wedding) and assess it if there is the slightest risk ? i promise to follow your advice to break the vicious cercle.
* i asked the nurse to change her gloves, she was so kind and she did. she also gave me new packed needle to unwrap it by my slef. i unfortunetly dropped it on the floor (was still packed). i quickly picked up and gave it back to the nurse (she emphasized to change it even if it still packed) and she changed it but kept the same gloves. if there was a spot of blood on the floor (i didn't see any fresh blood) and i picked some blood when i picked the first needle and i gave it to the nurse (i mean her gloves got soiled.)
1- is there any risk? for exemple when she used with that gloves the cotton ball to stop me bleeding from my arm . (she didn't touch the sharp part of the needle with that gloves)
2- MUST I Stop testing in order to break the vicious cercle ? in spite of the symptoms that i have or that i will have in future ? now i have two mouth canker sore.
3- may i have unprotected sex with my wife as it is the last blood draw before wedding? i'm really afraid to hurt her (and that's what made me test a lot and everytime i test i got another idea in my head) .
4- are soiled gloves totally free of risk? may i never think about them in futur?
5- may i put this story behind me and focus on my wedding (i postponed it several times beacuse of this story) ? may i forget totally about HIV?
6- please sir, if you were in my position what would you do ?
So sorry for some repetitve qst, i just want to make sure before my wedding (as it is the last HIV test before it) . i really trust you please advise me and i promise i will do what you say. please help me
many thanks in advance.
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H. Hunter Handsfield, MD
54 months ago
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That statement was poorly worded -- I'm not sure I understand it myself! Sorry. I was just pointing out that you see HIV risk that doesn't exist and are apparently taking unnecessary steps that you think lower the risk even further, but actually make no difference at all. For example, that you didn't see the nurse change needles. (Current blood draw systems are designed so that it is impossible to use a needle a second time after drawing blood.)
I already discussed your mouth ulcers. Yes, they can occur with a new HIV infection. But only rarely; never as the only symptom; and other causes are much more coommon. such as canker sores. Mouth ulcers rarely or ever are a reason to suspect or test for HIV.
Try to think rationally about blood spots on floor as a risk for you to be infected. That there woudl be any blood at all is unlikely; that it would be from an HIV infected person unlikely; that an uncovered dropped needle would have contacted the blood; that it would then have enough blood to transmit infection; and even that it would be used to draw blood on a patient all are unlikely. That ALL those would occur -- that entire chain of events -- is virtually impossible. Plus the fact that in the past 30 nobody in the world has caught HIV from having blood drawn.
All your new quesitons today are repeat. They were answered yesterday, or the answers are obvious from yestereday's disussion. But here we go again:
1. No, there is no risk.
2. There is no "vicious circle". Having blood drawn is never a reason to have another HIV test.
3. You can safely have sex with your wife.
4. Gloves rarely are soiled before use; but indeed would carry no risk of virus transmission if they were.
5. Yes.
6. Yes. I would never have had the first HIV test if I were in the kissing situation you describe.
You have one follow-up comment coming before this thread is closed. Think carefully: if you ask anything whose answer is obvious from what you were above or by Dr. Hook, it will not be answered.
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54 months ago
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Many thanks for your answers doctor.
One more detail. She didn't use the dropped needle, she changed it and used another one which I opened by myself (the one used it didn't dropped).
1- sir, what is your advice for me to forget this irrational fears? What should I do to be able to move on (after six unnecessary tests)?
2- I regret testing after kissing (I thought it's the best way to ease my mind). But I want to know sir, what would you do if you were in my last situation (having your blood drown and you saw the nurse dropped the needle)? Would you think about any risk, Or never think about it?
Please sir answer those questions. I will do my best to forget this.
Finally, thank you a lot sir for your help and for all what you do for us.
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H. Hunter Handsfield, MD
54 months ago
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Second question first: The thought of risk for HIV would not even enter my mind for either kissing or having blood drawn.
You clearly are abnormally obsessed with HIV risk. Obsessions with fear of infection (germophobia) can be an early sign of serious mental health disability; see the movie The Aviator for an excellent example -- about the industrialist and Hollywood personality Howard Hughes. If these fears are frequent and/or are interfering with your life, you should consider professional counseling. I suggest it from compassion, not criticism. We're not psychologists on this forum and I have no particular advice about addressing obsessions related to HIV and STDs. However, I'll point out that such obsessions never clear up just from learning the facts about risks, transmission, etc; no amount of questions and answers on this or any other forum are going to be very helpful.
Thanks for the thanks about our services; I hope the discussion has been helpful. That concludes this thread. Best wishes and stay safe.
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