[Question #7846] Typical Genital Herpes Outbreak
51 months ago
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Are there very common primary or very initial presentations to be looking out for when wondering if you have genital herpes? I think I am aware of the common presentation 1) but how often will the virus form blisters, ulcerate, and eventually scab over? Like if you do not see fluid filled blisters, and you never have any scabs how likely is it that it could be herpes. On uptodate is states that first episode infections include local pain and itching 98% of the time. 2) Is that pain localized directly to the sores and what is that pain like? 3) Also is there generally a certain region of the penis where the sores usually manifest? I know testing is key, but Basically what I am trying to figure out 4) is are there certain manifestations or symptoms that you have found in herpes patients throughout your career that makes it easy to diagnose a patient with a high degree of certainty without them having to get tested? Every time I see a bump i think herpes. 5) Also do herpes usually start off as red bumps that form into blisters or do they present as blisters the entire time?
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Terri Warren, RN, Nurse Practitioner
51 months ago
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1) but how often will the virus form blisters, ulcerate, and eventually scab over?
It depends upon the location of the first infection and the person's HSV 1 status. If the outbreak is in a female and is on the labia, it is unlikely that scabbing will form. If a person has HSV 1 prior to getting an HSV 2 infection, they may have no symptoms at all.
On uptodate is states that
first episode infections include local pain and itching 98% of the time.
I would strongly disagree with that statement. CDC data shows that 80+% of those infected with HSV 2 are unaware of their infection. If 98% of people experienced those symptoms, everyone would know, right? Perhaps a more accurate statement would be that IF someone has symptoms with a new infection, 98% right have itching or mild pain.
2) Is that pain localized directly to the sores and what is that pain like?
It is usually localized but a person with new infection might also have flu type symptoms - headache, light sensitivity, pain down the back of the leg, that kind of thing
3) Also is there generally a certain region of the penis where the sores usually manifest?
The shaft
The CDC says anyone with suspected herpes should have a laboratory diagnosis. I couldn't agree more. However, in the absence of the ability to be diagnosed via lab test, I would say that someone with water blister on a red base that are tender and itchy on the shaft of the penis that ulcerate then scab over and heal, is likely to have herpes.
I would say often the blisters start as a red raised area that then form water blisters.
If you think you might have herpes, you should get a swab test of suspected lesions. If you don't have any lesions but have had symptoms in the past that worried you, but were not seen by a provider at the time they were present, you could get an antibody test.
Terri
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51 months ago
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I'm sorry to keep messaging here but I have now spoken with 8 doctors/NP's and gotten such a wide variety of answers. I have had these red bumps on the base of my penis since at least 4/23. There are maybe like 10 red bumps. They often become paler/pinker if they are not as irritated. They really do go back and forth between pink/pale and red. They were never really painful to the touch but my general groin area was pretty itchy for a bit. I have tried popping them (I know this is dumb) and I never saw any fluid come out. Never had a fever I noticed. Originally and still I was told it could be warts. I used the acetic acid test and the bumps all became somewhat white, similar to a way a callus looks when it is wet (if that makes sense). After I did that they became very inflamed and became much larger and redder. With my second to last partner, we had sex the first week of February and I received negative HSV-1 and HSV-2 IgG results both after 8 and 12 weeks of us last having protected vaginal sex. I also had protected vaginal sex and unprotected oral sex on 5/2 with a new partner. I have been told folliculitis, yeast infection, condyloma, dermatitis, herpes (but I was told unlikely), and scabies (I have already covered myself in permethrin). I am currently taking bactrim and using clotrimazole 2x daily. I am hoping that any of these treatments will get rid of these bumps but at the moment they look very similar to the photos on 4/23.
I know there is a lot in here. I am just hoping that you could maybe look at the pictures below and my list of symptoms and tell me if you think if it could be any type of STD or what you think. If you feel confident ruling out anything I mentioned as well that would be appreciated.
I have attached a link of the images from 4/23 & 5/7 (this photo was taken the day after I used the acetic acid and the bumps became very inflammed as you can see the size difference between photos.) I apologize for the image quality
https://imgur.com/a/KQwLCjr
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Terri Warren, RN, Nurse Practitioner
51 months ago
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I'm so sorry, but we aren't allowed to observe pictures on this website. Since you seem comfortable seeing providers about this issue, I would strongly suggest that you see a dermatologist. You don't say what kind of providers you've seen but that would be the person you want to see. They may give you a quick answer or they may want to biopsy the bumps. That's what I think would be helpful. If you've treated with permethrin and clotrimazole, take scabies and yeast off your list if they are not helping things.l I would say you can likely take herpes off your list, given the duration of the bumps and the fact that when you try to pop them, they don't burst. And quit putting vinegar on them. A wild guess here would be warts or molluscum, but if it was molluscum, white stuff would likely have come out when you squeezed them. I know this is frustrating for you but you can get to the bottom of it by asking for a lab diagnosis, not a visual one.
Terri
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51 months ago
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Thank you for all this. I have had a virtual visit with a family medicine doctor who put dermatology as one of her specialties, a dermatologist through the skymd app, and I saw a dermatologist in person. I asked the derm in person to take a sample the sores and he said he could not. I am unsure why (maybe due the size, duration of symptoms or lack of fluid). The bumps are small and at this point there is definitely no fluid if there ever was. The in person dermatologist did not seem to have a great grasp of herpes as he told he I could only spread it if I'm symptomatic and with lesions. My main concern is herpes. If the lesions are around can I still get a PCR test even though i lack any type of fluid? I have had these bumps for 30 days although they are definitely smaller now. Can herpes present without fluid? l I would just like to get tested before the bumps eventually go away. I am just wondering my best next steps. If it is herpes I don't think sitting around waiting for a possible outbreak like the doctor recommended is a practical solution. Should I just get another antibody test in X amount of weeks?
Also I get my IgG tests done through AnyLabTestNow. I saw on your website they can ship my sample to the UW lab. I am wondering what that process entails, even though I do not know if this is continually a practical solution. I am a poor medical student. Eventually I will run out of money.
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Terri Warren, RN, Nurse Practitioner
51 months ago
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Herpes can present without fluid but something that lasts 30 days is highly unlikely to be herpes. You could repeat the antibody test 12 weeks from any concerning encounter for greatest accuracy or do the western blot for the best test. Doing the western blot test costs around $425 with shipping, blood drawing, the consult with me and the test itself - no doubt it is spendy but if you want to do it, go to westoverheights.com to book an appointment.
Terri
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