[Question #8040] Frottage/Apposition
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49 months ago
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Hello Drs, I have a few questions. Some background information, I am a male. I have been browsing through this site for hours on end but I couldn't find any specific encounters which were the same as mine. From this information, you can tell I have health anxiety. Now for some information on my encounter: 9 years ago, I was involved with another male in frottage/apposition where we rubbed our genitals together and also mutual masturbation was involved. When he ejaculated, he was pressing his penis head against my penis head so i think his semen went into my urethra. Unsure how long this encounter lasted but I would say 20 minutes maximum.
I always thought this was no risk so I didn't get tested right after this encounter. Fast forward to 1 years ago when I was properly sexually active, I got a full STD screening. Everything was negative. However my questions are
1. Is it possible that I got an STD, from this encounter, in particular the bacterial ones such as chlamydia and gonorrhea and it cured itself since his semen might've went in my urethra or is it correct for me to believe that this frottage/apposition posed no risk for any STD. I have read frottage/apposition poses 0 risk for these STD's, in previous threads, however I am uncertain if this still applies if the semen and also genital secretions went into my urethra.
2. Would the syphillis test that I got still be reliable even 8 years later. I read in a previous thread that is something called inactive syphillis so I was concerned with the idea that the test didn't detect it if is inactive? I don't know exactly what test I got but if it helps I am located in Australia.
I always thought this was no risk so I didn't get tested right after this encounter. Fast forward to 1 years ago when I was properly sexually active, I got a full STD screening. Everything was negative. However my questions are
1. Is it possible that I got an STD, from this encounter, in particular the bacterial ones such as chlamydia and gonorrhea and it cured itself since his semen might've went in my urethra or is it correct for me to believe that this frottage/apposition posed no risk for any STD. I have read frottage/apposition poses 0 risk for these STD's, in previous threads, however I am uncertain if this still applies if the semen and also genital secretions went into my urethra.
2. Would the syphillis test that I got still be reliable even 8 years later. I read in a previous thread that is something called inactive syphillis so I was concerned with the idea that the test didn't detect it if is inactive? I don't know exactly what test I got but if it helps I am located in Australia.
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H. Hunter Handsfield, MD
49 months ago
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Welcome to the forum. Thank you for your question and your confidence in our services.
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There have been a few questions from time to time about direct penis-penis contact, including one just a few days ago -- but not many, so I'm not surprised you didn't find anything. I agree that ejaculation while the urethras are in close contact might somewhat elevate the risk of STD transmission. However, still very low risk. To your questions:
1. As just noted, probably the risk is non-zero, unlike most frottage. But still low. And as your own research correctly noted, gonorrhea, chlamydia, or any other urethral infection would have been cleared by the immune system long ago. And absence of symptoms in the days after the event is strong evidence you weren't infected anyway. As for syphilis, HPV, and other STDs, I cannot say the risk was zero, but the chance you currently have any infection from that event is near zero.
2. If your negtive test was an enzyme immunoassay (EIA, i.e. an IgG/IgM test) -- the most common syphilis screening test these days -- it proves you never had syphilis. If it was a classical "nontreponemal" blood test (e.g., RPR, VDRL), it means you do not have active syphilis, but hypothetically could have been infected with immune system resolution (or perhaps cure if you received antibiotics for any other condition over the years). But even in that case, inactive syphilis with negative RPR almost never reactivates; it can be considered cured.
Frankly, I don't see that it matters, but you could check with the clinic or physician where you were tested. Or visit one of Australia's excellent federally supported sexual health centres -- collectively the world's best STD/HIV clinic system; they'll be able to sort it out if you remain concerned, either by determining what test you had or retesting. Either way, in the meantime, don't obsess about this. You clearly do not have syphilis at this time.
I hope these comments are helpful. Let me know if anything isn't clear.
HHH, MD
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49 months ago
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Thank you Dr Handsfield
I believe the syphillis test may have been the nontreponemal blood test. I'm not certain but this does sound quite familar so I would say it is this one.
1. In response to the symptoms after this encounter, I remember for a period of time, it kind of hurt to urinate when I was dehydrated but when I drank more water, the pain went away. Having said this, I am unsure if this was soon after the encounter or if this was years later but I remember I went to the doctor for this issue. Would this suggest chlamydia/gonorrhea to you.
2. If I did have either of these urethral infections, could it have damaged me in any way. From googling, it says that it can have very serious impacts of having these conditions untreated such as Epididymitis which could lead to infertility or Proctitis(never heard of it but now I know). So could it have caused these issues and then after causing it it would then have been cleared by my immune system. Could it have already done its damage and caused these issues. I would really love to have children in the future.
3. You say "perhaps cure if you received antibiotics for any other condition over the years." I have received antibiotics many times such as "APO-AMOXYCILLIN AND CLAVULANIC ACID 875mg/125mg" for an eye or ear infection(forgot which one). Would this have done the job in clearing it completely ie it is fully gone rather than being possibly inactive. Similarly to the chlamydia and gonorrhea situation, could it have done damage to me before it was cured.
4. For the other STDS such as HPV etc, I saw in a post from Dr Hook that because in the medical field, there are new discoveries each day you can never say the chance of something happening is 0. Is this why you say for the other STDs "I cannot say the risk was zero." Would you say the chance of acquiring the skin to skin contact STDs is essentially 0 realistically.
Thank you so much. I cannot begin to express how much this service has helped me!
I believe the syphillis test may have been the nontreponemal blood test. I'm not certain but this does sound quite familar so I would say it is this one.
1. In response to the symptoms after this encounter, I remember for a period of time, it kind of hurt to urinate when I was dehydrated but when I drank more water, the pain went away. Having said this, I am unsure if this was soon after the encounter or if this was years later but I remember I went to the doctor for this issue. Would this suggest chlamydia/gonorrhea to you.
2. If I did have either of these urethral infections, could it have damaged me in any way. From googling, it says that it can have very serious impacts of having these conditions untreated such as Epididymitis which could lead to infertility or Proctitis(never heard of it but now I know). So could it have caused these issues and then after causing it it would then have been cleared by my immune system. Could it have already done its damage and caused these issues. I would really love to have children in the future.
3. You say "perhaps cure if you received antibiotics for any other condition over the years." I have received antibiotics many times such as "APO-AMOXYCILLIN AND CLAVULANIC ACID 875mg/125mg" for an eye or ear infection(forgot which one). Would this have done the job in clearing it completely ie it is fully gone rather than being possibly inactive. Similarly to the chlamydia and gonorrhea situation, could it have done damage to me before it was cured.
4. For the other STDS such as HPV etc, I saw in a post from Dr Hook that because in the medical field, there are new discoveries each day you can never say the chance of something happening is 0. Is this why you say for the other STDs "I cannot say the risk was zero." Would you say the chance of acquiring the skin to skin contact STDs is essentially 0 realistically.
Thank you so much. I cannot begin to express how much this service has helped me!
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49 months ago
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5. If you could also give a % in acquiring the bacterial STD's from this encounter, what would you say it is.
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H. Hunter Handsfield, MD
49 months ago
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You're overthinking all this. None of the concerns reflected in these questions is realistic.
2. Absence of ongoing symptoms is 100% evidence of no complications to worry about.
3. Those antibiotics are highly active against syphilis and almost certainly would have cured any latent infection you might have had.
4. The risk of HPV is never zero, since 90% of all sexually active people acquire genital HPV, often several infections. Most are harmless, and absence of symptoms means little or no risk and nothing to worry about.
5. Wild guess: no higher risk than one in many thousand; and if you did catch something, it is long gone.
Do your best to drop all further consideration of the sexual event on your mind and any STD as a consequence.
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49 months ago
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Thank you for your reply Dr Handsfield.
1. I meant there was a stinging sensation when I urinated, rather than difficulty urinating.
2. Strangely enough around 1-2 years ago, I actually developed some rectal pain which in a couple of months turned to a dull testicular pain. This testicular pain lasted weeks. This was before I started to be properly sexually active, so the only encounter I had was with this person 8 years ago. I had an ultrasound which said there was nothing except varicocle veins or a condition which sounds similar to that and also STD test later and it all showed negative. My lymph nodes appeared to be normal as well. The testicular pain sometimes randomly shows back up at times along with the rectal pain. I always attributed these symptoms to me severely regretting this encounter. Is it safe to say that these symptoms don't indicate any of the complications that I mentioned.
3. If there were complications back then, I would've been in severe pain right and I would definitely know right, because I don't remember anything except the slightly burning urine.
4. In response to the HPV, ever since last year from what I remembered, I've been having these random tiny black bumps on my penis, they almost look like tiny scabs. I only really noticed once I started taking this drug called accutane for my skin. There have been new ones appearing constantly for the past 9 months while others go away. At the moment I would say I have like 5-6 which aren't located in clusters. If it was HPV warts, new warts wouldn't constantly appear like this right? I was worried that this could've been cancer as I read there could be scab like bumps from it but the urologist said something that small is probably nothing.
5. I would've assumed my immune system would have cleared the HPV by now?
I very much apologise for seeming overly paranoid, but the intense regret I had after this encounter makes me constantly assume the worst. It really is taking over my life.
1. I meant there was a stinging sensation when I urinated, rather than difficulty urinating.
2. Strangely enough around 1-2 years ago, I actually developed some rectal pain which in a couple of months turned to a dull testicular pain. This testicular pain lasted weeks. This was before I started to be properly sexually active, so the only encounter I had was with this person 8 years ago. I had an ultrasound which said there was nothing except varicocle veins or a condition which sounds similar to that and also STD test later and it all showed negative. My lymph nodes appeared to be normal as well. The testicular pain sometimes randomly shows back up at times along with the rectal pain. I always attributed these symptoms to me severely regretting this encounter. Is it safe to say that these symptoms don't indicate any of the complications that I mentioned.
3. If there were complications back then, I would've been in severe pain right and I would definitely know right, because I don't remember anything except the slightly burning urine.
4. In response to the HPV, ever since last year from what I remembered, I've been having these random tiny black bumps on my penis, they almost look like tiny scabs. I only really noticed once I started taking this drug called accutane for my skin. There have been new ones appearing constantly for the past 9 months while others go away. At the moment I would say I have like 5-6 which aren't located in clusters. If it was HPV warts, new warts wouldn't constantly appear like this right? I was worried that this could've been cancer as I read there could be scab like bumps from it but the urologist said something that small is probably nothing.
5. I would've assumed my immune system would have cleared the HPV by now?
I very much apologise for seeming overly paranoid, but the intense regret I had after this encounter makes me constantly assume the worst. It really is taking over my life.
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49 months ago
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Expanding on 3. Also if I had epididymitis, the ultrasound that I got would have showed it correct? If the STD is cured, would it even be possible to have these complications or is it once that it's gone, the complications would not arise. Is there essentially no way that I got these complications and am I jst being overly paranoid right now? If I did have ongoing symptoms, what would they be and would these symptoms be constant and would the pain be very bad? (Particularly concerned about the infertility ones.)
My brain honestly keeps coming up with the worst case scenarios. I really think I should start seeing a therapist or psychologist to combat this soon.
Sorry if it seems like I'm overthinking it but I just want to make sure.
My brain honestly keeps coming up with the worst case scenarios. I really think I should start seeing a therapist or psychologist to combat this soon.
Sorry if it seems like I'm overthinking it but I just want to make sure.
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H. Hunter Handsfield, MD
49 months ago
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1. Stinging alone, without discharge, is rarely due to STD. You had no symptoms that suggested an STD of any kind.
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2. These symptoms could not have been related to a sexual event 2 years earlier. You can't (or shouldn't) go through life attributing every little twitch and tingle to a sexual experience you apparently regret.
3. Yes, any and all complications would have been obvious. For example, you cannot have had STD-related epididymitis without several, disabling testicular pain and swelling.
4. HPV doesn't cause the sorts of bumps you describe. Warts look like warts!
5. HPV usually is cleared by the immune system, but many infections are lifelong nevertheless. We call carry innumerable bacteria and viruses without harm. HPV is among them. No big deal just because it happens to have usually been sexually acquired.
Anybody who thinks along the lines you describe, about getting professional counseling, should do it. These issues obviously are dominant themes that are negatively (and needlessly) affecting your psychological functioning and life satisfaction. Deal with it!
That completes the two follow-up exchanges include with each question and so ends this thread. I hope the discussion has been helpful, as I have intended. But I do hope you will look into counseling. Best wishes.
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