[Question #8492] STI

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43 months ago
Hello doctors,
I had a lapse recently. I am quite convinced I do not need testing but would like your advice all the same as I deem it necessary.
2 nights ago, I was in a very intoxicated state.  Staggering back from a party, I was approached by a street prostitute offering massage. I accepted and she took me to a dingy room. Basically, nothing happened. She massages me. Tried to give me a handjob and I refused.  She did not take off her clothes. Her friend then entered. Again, nothing really happened, I refused handjob advances and I am almost certain they did not even touch my penis. They did massage my back chest and legs though. I also stupidly kissed the friend who came in and sucked her breasts several times. In addition, the second woman was naked and raped her legs around me when I was dozing and semi asleep. I never removed my boxer shorts. Anyway, been here before and trying to logically dismiss this. However, they were high risk women. Older too. Over 50 I would guess. I am in Vietnam.  Questions are, given there high risk - assume both were infected with hsv 2, syphillis, hiv, did I do anything to put myself at risk? Would you recommend testing? Again, hsv 2 or syphilis are my main minor concerns. Could there be a risk from kissing and sucking breasts? I am certain I did not touch her orifices but stroked inner thighs, buttocks. I was also there for about 6 hours, but mainly slept. Could my non genital skin, back, chest, leg be a risk for skin on skin? Does the kissing pose any risk? I do not believe I kissed or sucked breasts for too long. Possibly a few minutes maximum? Any advice? Should I simply forget and move on? Appreciate your advice.
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H. Hunter Handsfield, MD
43 months ago
Welcome to the forum. Thanks for your confidence in our services.

I'm smiling as I write this. Such a great example of an analytical, objective, thinking analysis ("I am quite convinced I do not need test") at the same time as a conflicting emotional reaction (the rest of your comments and questions). When it comes to sexual exposures and STI risk (and probably for life in general), when the thinking/objective analysis conflicts with the emotional, go with the thinking! Usually it will serve you best.

OK, I'm done with the philosophy. You describe events that are entirely free of any risk of STI transmission. Some infecstions are called sexually transmitted for good reason:  the bacteria and viruses that cause them evolved to require the intimate contact of sex itself for transmission. Not just skin to skin contact, not by kissing, and certainly not by oral contact with skin, including breasts, nipples, etc. It doesn't matter how "high risk" your partners might have been. Even if actively infected with all known STIs, you could not have been infected from the events you have described. You were no more at risk than you would have been had these women been clerks at a store where you exchanged money, waitresses serving you at a restaurant, or friends you met on the street.

Those comments pretty well cover your specific questions, but to be explicit:

"Assume both were infected with hsv 2, syphillis, hiv, did I do anything to put myself at risk?"  Nope. "Would you recommend testing?" No.  "Could there be a risk from kissing and sucking breasts?" No, none. "Could my non genital skin, back, chest, leg be a risk for skin on skin?" No, for sure not. "Does the kissing pose any risk?" Nope. "Any advice? [or] Should I simply forget and move on?" That's it exactly!

I hope these responses have helped. Let me know if anything isn't clear.

HHH, MD


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43 months ago
Hi Foc. And happy new year! Your response made me smile too! Thanks!! 2 final follow ups. Why is kissing no risk for hsv 2 and syphilis - the women being a street walker - one would assume she has had more cocks in mouth than the big bad wolf!! Would logic not suggest she could have contacted these stds here and be potentially contagious? Judging from your replies on several forums, is is simply although this is theoretical, it never happens? Have you ever seen hsv 2 or siphilis contracted through kissing no matter how high risk the individual? We are talking a Vietnamese street prostitute. I will take your expertise doc and move on, as I say, been here before, you have always been correct but I have had 4 months of anxiety as I have judged I need to ‘test out’ at enormous emotional cost. Finally, reading doxycycline cures syphilis but also syphilis will test positive if you have had prior infection. Would this drug (available over the counter here) stop any incubating syphilis in its tracks so that the TP result would always be negative? Regardless of risk, what are your thoughts on the latter. Happy new year doc! You truly are a great man. A statue should be raised in your honor. I think I speak for most when I write this. A living legend!!!!
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H. Hunter Handsfield, MD
43 months ago
Kissing isn't zero risk for syphilis, and some cases are transmitted by kissing. But it's rare and when occurs is mostly among men having sex with men (in whom syphilis rates are highest). Oral HSV2 infection is rare, and hence almost never transmitted by kissing. Kissing and oral sex are the main ways HSV1, the cause of oral cold sores and many cases of genital herpes. But not for HSV2; and oral HSV1 isn't considered an STI. To my knowledge, in my 40+ years in the STI business, I'm not aware I've ever cared for a case of syphilis acquired by kissing, but I've seen lots of patients with genital HSV1 following oral sex (but few from kissing, as far as I know). Anyway, there's at least a 50% chance you already have HSV1 (maybe up to a 90% chance, depending on your race and national origin) -- in which case you are immune to a new infection with HSV1, anywhere on your body. This really isn't anything to be worried about.

Doxycycline (100 mg twice daily for 7 days), started within a week of exposure would prevent syphilis or abort early infection. Your risk probably is too low to warrant it, but if you insist, I imagine it's readily available in Thai pharmacies. 
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43 months ago
Hi doc. Thanks again for your response. Final question then. Just so I understand, and I am aware that this is for peace of mind as opposed to risk. Would taking doxycycline not only abort any syphilis infection from developing, but mean I will never test positive for it on any test?  I am aware one test picks up prior infection even if treated and goes away. The TP levels are still in your blood. If doxycycline is taken early enough, all tests will always be negative? Is this correct? Or will it be the same as a treated infection if one had a prior infection. This detectable even if cured on certain tests. Apologies for repetition, just want to be certain my question is clear.
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H. Hunter Handsfield, MD
43 months ago
Your statement is exactly right:  "If doxycycline is taken early enough, all tests will always be negative."  If treated now, it will not be possible to ever know if you had been infected. But I don't see that matters:  it also means you have no infection that can reactivate in the future:  it will be the same as never been infected at all. (This doesn't mean I'm recommending doxycycline:  I do not.

That completes the two follow-up exchanges included with each question and so ends this thread. Thanks for your kind words about our services. Happy new year and stay safe.
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