[Question #8829] Co infection

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39 months ago
Hi, my question is, can hiv co-infection with CMV or HCV slow the production of antigen or antibodies? Is CMV often co-infected with HIV? Would this extend the window period for an antibodies test or would 3 months suffice? Thanks 
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39 months ago
And would acute coinfection with these viruses cause delayed seroconversion past 3 months? 
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39 months ago
Meant to also ask: is HCV commonly transmitted between normal vaginal sex? What is the window period on HCV testing? Thanks. 
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H. Hunter Handsfield, MD
39 months ago
Welcome. Thank you for your confidence in our services.

There's a common internet-driven belief that having hepatitis C virus (HCV) delays HIV antibody production in newly infected people. It's based on a single report over 20 years ago, which has not been replicated. If it's true at all, it happens only in people already infected with HCV before contacting HIV. And with the antigen-antibody tests (which were not yet in widespread use back in 2001), the theoretical result would be to speed up test positivity, not delay it:  the delay in antibody would result in higher levels of the antigen component. In any case, the real-world universal experience is that this is a non-issue in HIV diagnosis. Could cytomegalovirus (CMV) do something like this? There are no such reports that I know about.

Contrary to common beliefs (and misleading internet discussions), HCV is NOT an STI except sometimes in men who have sex with men and also participate in potentially traumatic anal sexual practices (i.e. with likely blood exposure). Even here, it's pretty much limited to HIV infected MSM. HCV is not sexually transmitted at all between men and women, or so rarely it can be ignored. (One research study of couples in which only one person had HCV calculated a transmission rate by unprotected vaginal sex to be 1 in 196,000. For a couple having sex 3 times a week, that works out to one transmission every 6,000 years.) So if your screen name reflects your gender (female), you are at little or no risk for sexual acquisition of HCV, and hence no bearing on the results of any HIV risk or testing.

CMV is primarily a childhood infection -- acquired by most people by their teen years or early 20s, sometimes during their birth to infected moms; mostly from saliva contact with other kids; and sexually in those people who reach their sexually active years having escaped childhood infection. So if you're age 25 or more, you probably already have it, and are now immune to a new CMV infection. Whether or not you have it, there is no know interaction with HIV testing or positive test results, as I noted above.

Perhaps I could help more if you would like to tell me what sort of HIV exposures or risks you have had, and perhaps your test results. But for the reasons just discussed, probably HCV and CMV are irrelevant in terms of your risk of HIV or the interpretation of your test results.

I hope these comments are helpful. Let me know if anything isn't clear.

HHH, MD
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H. Hunter Handsfield, MD
39 months ago
Your second follow-up question came through after my reply -- but I had mostly answered it already. And for the reasons above, HCV testing is not required on account of sexual risks -- even after sex with a partner known to have it. When a test is done in truly exposed persons, the results are considered conclusive after 6 weeks.---
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39 months ago
Sorry, here are some more details: 
I am a 23 year old female. my exposure was brief vaginal intercourse and oral in which there was no ejaculation in my mouth or vagina. I didn’t know his sexual history but he is heterosexual and does not use intravenous drugs nor do I. I was most recently tested for hiv at 14 weeks and it was negative. It was a blood drawn hiv 1/2 antibodies test. My partner tested negative for hiv 1/2 ag/ab  at 8 weeks after our encounter  with a 4th generation test. He also tested negative for HCV antibodies at 8 weeks post our encounter and at 20 weeks with an oraquick. I haven’t tested for HCV but have had what I feel are symptoms (spider veins  for instance) but I had a normal CMP and CBC at the time of hiv test although monocytes were elevated. I was tested for EBV and CMV and CMV was currently active. I read somewhere in the European guidelines on testing that acute infection with CMV, HCV, etc and a negative hiv test should be retested at 12 or 24 weeks. This has me completely terrified and I am so heartbroken and scared. 
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H. Hunter Handsfield, MD
39 months ago
It is 100% certain neither you nor your partner has HIV; you were over tested, and waited longer than necessary. I don't really understand why you were tested for HIV at all when your partner had a negative HIV test 8 weeks after sex together, which by itself proved you could not have been exposed to the virus. Or why all the HCV testing. And why EBV and CMV testing? You have been misinformed or misunderstood something you may have found online about European STD testing guidelines. I'm not aware of any authorities or experts who recommend EBV or CMV testing as part of a routine STD check-up or test battery. (Have you and your partner been testing yourselves, or have you had a doctor or clinic's guidance? Self testing for STDs usually is a mistake in anxious or worried persons!)

As for a "currently active" CMV infection, I am doubtful. CMV test interpretation can be quite complex. Most all healthy adults test positive, and even "active" infection generally can and should be ignored. And modestly elevated monocytes on CBC usually indicates no significant health problem.

It is equally certain you do not have HCV. "Spider veins" can occur in advanced hepatitis and overt liver failure, but only in people deathly ill from advanced, life treating illness. But itself it never suggests viral hepatitis. And many other  alone is never evidence of hepatitis.

You are seriously overreacting. You describe absolutely nothing that should make you "terrified and...heartbroken and scared". In all my 50 years in the STD business, caring for thousands of patients, I've never once had a patient with your sort of sexual history who had a significant health problem with any of these viruses! Perhaps it would help you to see an appropriate expert in person for further reassurance, such as an infectious diseases specialist, or an STD physician or clinic, depending on where you are and what medical resources you have. In the meantime, perhaps I'll have some final comments -- which probably would be reassuring -- if you'd like to run through all your specific test results, if you are in possession of reports from the laboratory.
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39 months ago
Hi, I tested because I had some ARS flu like symptoms 3 weeks after our encounter and some symptoms now. My tests were done by my Gynecologist  and sent to a lab, His tests were done by Quest labs and the oraquick in home. He tests regularly for all infectious diseases because of his job in law enforcement. I was tested at a different doctor for CMV/ EBV at the same time as my 14 week test because I had some Petechaie and told them about my previous flu like illness.  My worry about him passing on HIV or HCV to me is because I felt he could have been in acute phase when we slept together as he said he slept with a different woman a bit before. He also says he has seen her recent std results and she is negative for HIV. I tested for all other STDs as well including syphillis. RPR at 16 weeks was negative, as well as my partners at 8 weeks. 

 CMV results were 
IGM reactive 
IGG reactive (32) (high) 

My most recent CMP results were all normal range. At one point I went to the ER for numbness and weakness. I was diagnosed with low sodium and electrolyte imbalance due to my meds along with a UTI. my sodium was low at 128 and chloride at 97. Bun was low at 10. I was given fluids and had another CMP at the doctor a week later which was normal. 

Monocytes in my Most recent CBC were elevated and total percent monocytes were 78%. I should mention at this time I had a UTI. I also had immature granulecytes 
at .30%. The uti has since cleared. I haven’t had a CBC since. 


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39 months ago
My blood drawn HIV 1/2 AB test was negative at both 6 and 14 weeks. 
I tested negative for all STDS including RPR at 6 and 14 weeks. However I was positive for BV. 

My partner’s blood drawn AG/AB 4th generation HIV test was negative as was an in home 20 week oraquick. 

He was negative for Hepatitis A,B,C at 8 weeks. 

His RPR and all other stds negative at 8 weeks. 


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39 months ago
All tests done by doctors/ Labs excluding the 20 week oraquick. Thank you for all of your time answering me. I appreciate it. 
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39 months ago
Sorry, my last RPR test was done at 14 weeks not 16 weeks. 
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39 months ago
I also forgot to mention the intercourse was unprotected. 
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H. Hunter Handsfield, MD
39 months ago
Thanks for the additional information. Are you a health professional? You seem familiar with the terminology.

You indeed might have a recently acquired CMV infection, which is one cause of "heterophile negative" mono (mononucleosis not due to EBV). That could cause your flu-like symptoms a few weeks ago and elevated monocytes, and the timing seems right in regard to the sexual exposure described. However, it isn't certain. Most adults have reactive IgG tests -- 1:32 is higher than average, but not unusual. Positive IgM doesn't mean much:  if your IgM were positive with a negative or low IgG result, it would be more consistent with new infection, and IgM antibody can reappear in people with prolonged infection. However, I'm not sure how important this is now. The natural course of CMV mono is complete resolution, without treatment; long term health problems are unusual. That said, if you want to pursue it, additional tests could be done, such as tests for various CMV antigens, and PCR to detect CMV DNA. As I said above, diagnosing CMV and interpreting tests for it is a complex business, and if you decide to pursue it, an infectious diseases consultant would be the way to go. (I certainly would not let anyone close to me accept diagnosis or management of a CMV infection without input from an experienced ID specialist.) 

Aside from sexual exposure, a common risk for CMV is close contact with young children; it's an occupational illness for day care workers and elementary school teachers, for example, who happen to have missed out on having CMV during their own childhoods. Do you have kids at home, or contact with other young children?

0.3% is a normal level of immature granulocytes -- no concerns there.

Was your UTI confirmed with culture positive for a standard cause, like E. coli or similar bacteria? And were you tested for gonorrhea and chlamydia? (Both of these can closely mimic UTI in symptoms and urinalysis; and both are common in women with bacterial vaginosis.)

I can't say much about your "numbness and weakness", or your transient electrolyte imbalance, but I'm glad to hear those issues have cleared up. They might have been nonspecific manifestations of CMV mono, but most antibiotics don't cause such things. What antibiotic were you taking? 

I stand by my comments above about HIV and HCV. You do not have either one, and whether or not you have newly acquired CMV has no bearing on those test results.

Threads normally are closed after two follow-up questions and replies, but I'd be happy to go another cycle or two if you'd like to answer my questions or have other issues you would like to clarify.
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H. Hunter Handsfield, MD
39 months ago
I meant to also say I'm glad you were tested for syphilis. It was a long shot, but could have caused some of what you have described. But the negative RPRs are conclusive.

And I failed to notice your statement of negative STI testing. Undoubtedly that included chlamydia and gonorrhea.
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39 months ago
Thank you so much for your detailed reply. I do work in healthcare although I am far from a doctor. Most of my knowledge of terminology comes from reading medical journals or forums such as this. I am so very thankful for this forum and your help. 

The cmv test came around the time of the negative 14 weeks HIV test. I went to a different doctor than my gynecologist, she was a GP. I told her about the Petechaie and the flu like symptoms I experienced about 2 months earlier. She told me it was possible CMV caused my initial flu like symptoms because IGG can stay reactive for around 4 months depending on one’s immune system. 

At the time of my flu like illness, I had been with him 3 weeks before the symptoms. I do not live with young children or work with them, but in the weeks before I saw him in between jobs and at home a lot, but had been visiting the gym/ other public places. 

I was negative for  Trichonomas, Gonorrhea, and chlamydia. I had WBC, trace protein, elevated bacteria, and trace nitrates in my urine. The culture revealed <10K cfu Strep B. The Strep B was considered contamination because of elevated squamous cells in my urine, the fact that I had no symptoms of uti except some Incontience/ smell of urine. I did not have burning, pain, discharge, etc, and because the strep B was <10K. I was never told what caused the WBC, trace protein, trace nitrates, but I was given macraboid antibiotics, and when tested again at the doctor a week later, the UTI was cleared. 

At the time of the weakness and numbness I was not taking any antibiotic, although I had used intravaginal flagyl some weeks earlier for the BV. The flagyl caused numbness in my vaginal and pelvic area. The medicines that were suspected of causing the Hyponatremia were my stimulant medication mixed with my prescription sodium oxybate medicine (Xywav). I had just started Xywav a month prior. The weakness and numbness were sudden, I had facial numbness , back pain, and confusion as well. They did no scans at the ER. The numbness and weakness are now completely gone and improved after the IV fluids and discontinued one of the meds. I did have some slight nerve pain in my lower back weeks later but I am now fully recovered. 

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39 months ago
I should mention the Numbness and weakness occurred after the 14 weeks negative HIV AB test. 
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39 months ago
The weeks before I saw him I was in between jobs **
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H. Hunter Handsfield, MD
39 months ago
OK, thanks. From this distance I can't completely evaluate all the details, and cannot make a particular diagnosis. But this additional information doesn't change my overall assessment. For sure you do not have HIV or HCV; you can move on with no more worries or concerns about them. It seems likely you had an acute CMV infection and should continue follow-up according to your doctors' advice (perhaps with ID consultation) -- but if you did, I would anticipate continuing complete recovery.

So that concludes this thread. I hope the discussion has been helpful. Best wishes and stay safe!
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39 months ago
Hi, I know I’m not supposed to reply to this and will purchase another question if necessary, but I wanted to mention that I have had symptoms occur after my 14 week negative hiv test. I have had cervical lymph node swelling, oral thrush (appeared after taking antibiotics for uti and BV but has not gone away with nystatin), a non itchy pink/red rash (similar to pitraysis lichenodes chronica), and a few others. Am I still in the clear for HIV despite these symptoms? And can CMV mono last this long? Thank you, I will buy another question if needed. I’m sorry. 
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H. Hunter Handsfield, MD
39 months ago
It is not possible you have HIV, and thus no symptoms you have now or develop in the future can be cause by HIV (assuming no new exposure). Do your best to understand that and believe it! I won't try to speculate on your cervical lymph node or possible oral yeast infection, except that there are plenty of potential causes of the node other than HIV, and taking antibiotics is far more common yeast infection trigger than HIV is. And yes, CMV mono can be prolonged.

It won't help you to purchase a new question. We do not get into advice about problems other than HIV and STIs, and this discussion already has gone further down that path than usual. Keep working with your doctor(s); or, as discussed before, consider asking for referral to an infectious diseases specialist.

Best wishes to you.
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