[Question #8838] HPV & Genital Warts

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39 months ago
Hello:

I have researched this forum extensively, along with CDC articles, and instead of rehashing my findings I will jump straight into the question.  Note, I am more than happy to pay extra if the below doesn't count as "one question,"  but I hope my inquiry helps others reading this forum.  For background info as it pertains to my question(s) I am a male in his late 30's recently diagnosed with genital warts (hereinafter "GW").

1(a). If it is true the body *can* rid the HPV virus within 2-3 years would Gardisol 9 prevent reinfection ?  If the answer is yes, why is there an arbitrary cap on an age for obtaining the vaccine (for males, age 45) ?  If my body completely eradicates the virus it therefore follows the vaccine should prevent reinfection, correct?  

1(b). Related to the above question:  I understand the vaccine does not cure HPV; in fact, there is no "cure."  However, if my body suppresses the virus-- (not complete eradication)-- to the point of no outbreaks/non-detectable, etc. would the vaccine prevent a subsequent outbreak ?  Or is it a lost cause as my body has already "learned" how to fight the virus and the vaccine is now rendered superfluous in regards to my known HPV infection (I understand it could be useful in preventing other HPV infections I may have not come across).

2. If I infect my partner with GW and my body clears the infection (whether my body suppressed HPV to trace amounts or eradicated completely), but my partner now has active GW can I be re-infected with the HPV I passed to my partner and have another outbreak ?  Why or why not? 

3. Is it known how much smoking cigarettes contributes to an outbreak of GW?  Is vaping an e-cigarette better than smoking  for purposes of GW control, or are they one in the same?  

4. When will it be safe to shave-- "man-scape"--down in the pubic region?  I am assuming once all visible GW have disappeared.

Thank you for your time and consideration.  


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H. Hunter Handsfield, MD
39 months ago
Welcome to the forum. Thank you for reviewing the forum for similar questions and replies and for doing the other research implied. It shows in the sophistication of your questions, which I'm happy to address. In the same spirit of your preamble, I will delete some of the general comments that often precede replies to specific issues; you probably know everything I might have said. So directly to your questions:

1a,b)  The age cap isn't arbitrary. FDA approves prescription products, including vaccines, for marketing based on data provided by the producer. New information or data that becomes available later has no effect on FDA approved use or recommendations unless and until the producer goes through the lengthy, complex and expensive process of re-applying to FDA. The only current HPV vaccine producer in the US (Merck) originally studied effectiveness only in people up to age 26, which for years was the age cap. Later they studied people age 26-45 (or 46?) and found it effective, and saw a large market increase, and so Merck applied to FDA to raise the approved age limit. Both approvals were only for prevention; for many years it was believed there was little if any effectiveness against established infection or in preventing reinfection. Over the past decade, data have emerged suggesting probable partial effectiveness in both these goals, but Merck has not applied to FDA to approve vaccination for these purposes -- probably because the data are soft and the potential additional market not very large. Hence the official (FDA) position is that Gardasil is indicated to prevent initial infection and its consequences (warts, cancer, pre-cancerous lesions), but not for management of established infection or to prevent reinfection. That said, some experts recommend vaccination in people with, say, recurrent warts, hoping to reduce the frequency of future reactivation (or they accede to patient requests to do so); and, probably more frequently, in women with recurrent abnormal Pap smears. But this is not an officially approved use of the vaccine or, to my knowledge, recommended by any authoritative agency like CDC, state public health departments, or other countries' equivalent agencies.

Whether these outcomes are different in infected persons whose immune systems have truly eliminated HPV or merely suppressed it is unknown. From a biological standpoint, I don't see how or why this would make a difference. In any case, it's a moot point, because there is no known means to distinguish such patients -- i.e. no tests or other methods to determine whose immune system has completely eliminated HPV or merely suppressed it -- until clinical evidence of reactivation shows up (e.g. recurrent warts or recurrent abnormal Pap smear).

2) It is generally believed that with or without immunization, people uncommonly are re-infected with the same HPV type(s) they already have, or have had. Recent research indicates this may happen more frequently than previously believed, but probably it's still pretty uncommon. If you have a future partner who catches (or already has) your HPV strain, with or without developing warts, I don't see vaccination as likely to modify your already very low risk of being reinfected.

The unstated implication of these issues so far is that you are wondering whether or not you should be immunized at this time. Probably yes, but not on account of your GWs or risk of their recurrence in the future. The reason is that it is probable you have not been infected with all of the 9 HPV types prevented by the vaccine, which cause ~90% of all important HPV related health problems (GWs, cancer, pre-cancer). (This assumes you'll have at least a few new sex partner in the future. Immunization is far less important if you are in or about to start a long term, mutually committed monogamous relationship.) That vaccination might also somewhat reduce the chance of future reactivation of your HPV infection, or prevent reinfection with the same type, should be viewed as a possible minor side benefit, but it's definitely not the main reason you should do it. 

3) Smoking is associated with persistence of cervical HPV infection in women and a greater speed of progression of pre-cancerous cervical lesions to overt cancer. However, I am unaware of any data on recurrent genital warts. Presumably the effect in women is due to one or more (maybe hundreds) of the chemical products of burning tobacco, which is what should be avoided, regardless of the inhalation equipment used (or cigarets per se).

4) There are no data on this, just a general belief (and common sense) by providers that local re-inoculation of HPV from warts might lead to new warts nearby. On the other hand, once a few weeks have passed -- and probably by the time warts appear, typically months after catching the HPV that causes them -- the immune system may be effective in preventing active infection in this manner. As a practical matter, your own assumption is reasonable:  OK to shaving the infected area once visible warts are gone and any tissue injury from the treatment (e.g. inflammation following freezing, imiquimod, etc) has cleared up.

Thanks for the advance thanks. I hope these comments are helpful. Let me know if anything isn't clear.

HHH, MD
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39 months ago
Thank you Dr. Handsfield. 

You referenced my question(s) may be in regards as to whether to be immunized at this time--for context purposes, I have already received my first shot of Gardisol 9 and I will complete the vax--my concern is recurrence of my GW and potential transmission to other partners/ reinfection from other partners.  Further,  I do not have any autoimmune diseases or any other condition whether it be an allergy or high blood pressure.  With that in mind--if you could clarify the below:

Regarding my first question 1(a) / 1(b) you stated "[w]hether these outcomes are different in infected persons whose immune systems have truly eliminated HPV or merely suppressed it is unknown. From a biological standpoint, I don't see how or why this would make a difference."

For the purposes of this clarifying question let's assume the following to be true:   my body completely eradicates the HPV strain 6/11.  As such, my body no longer has any HPV 6/11 which caused the GW.  For purposes of the vaccine effectiveness, how is my body any different from someone who has never had HPV 6/11 ?  We both are similarly situated in the sense that neither of us have any HPV 6/11 in our system. 

Regarding your response to my second question (transmission) you stated "[i]f you have a future partner who catches (or already has) your HPV strain, with or without developing warts, I don't see vaccination as likely to modify your already very low risk of being reinfected."

Can you explain why I have a low risk of being reinfected?  I do not understand the "why" regarding my risk of reinfection being low -- this is especially true considering GW being "multifocal," and said HPV/GW could come into contact with skin not previously infected thereby causing a recurring and/or new outbreak.  Would that be a fair statement?  In any event, it would be helpful to know in making decisions about potential partners, disclosures of HPV status, and taking proper care of my body to know the "why" behind why I am at a low risk for reinfection with a partner that has the same HPV strain as myself.  The below study was written by a University of Chicago Student and the article does not mention their mode, method, etc. of how they came up with their numbers (lies, damn lies, and statistics) but it is alarming.

Link: https://www.uchicagomedicine.org/forefront/biological-sciences-articles/men-with-hpv-are-20-times-more-likely-to-be-reinfected-after-one-year

 In sum, I was, like most on here, shocked and appalled by my condition but I have quickly come to terms with it and I am grateful it is not a lot worse-- re: Cancer, HIV, or some other debilitating disease/virus.  You and your colleagues work on this forum have been a great asset to me being able to quickly rationalize and compartmentalize my situation.  Thank you again Dr. Hansfield. 


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H. Hunter Handsfield, MD
39 months ago
"For purposes of the vaccine effectiveness, how is my body any different from someone who has never had HPV 6/11 ?" I don't know that it's different at all. However, in this circumstance, vaccination may act as a booster, with a greater immune response to the vaccine than in previously uninfected persons. This seems biologically plausible, but I am unaware of any data on this.

 "Can you explain why I have a low risk of being reinfected?"  There are strong research data showing that new infection with the same HPV type(s) someone already has is rare. As I said above, it was long thought this doesn't occur at all, but more recent data document occasional reinfection with the same HPV type, but it remains very uncommon. The presumed reason is that the body's immune response -- the same one that normally suppressed the original infection -- is quite effective against new infection with the same type of HPV.  As for the publication you linked, it appears to be high quality mathematical modeling and it is statistically sophisticated. Modeling studies can be very helpful in predicting real world epidemiology, but that's all; in itself this analysis does not necessarily mean that the truth is revealed. To my knowledge, the consensus among HPV experts is that reinfection with the same type in fact is uncommon.

"I was...shocked and appalled by my condition...." A very common theme on this forum is that this is a gross overstatement of the importance and impact of HPV. Of course any online forum like this tends to attract persons who are most concerned about the topic they ask about. However, many on the forum who ask about their HPV infections care not "shocked and appalled"; and for sure I can tell you that the vast majority of persons who attend STD clinics with GWs are pretty blasé about it and properly understand HPV in general and GWs in particular to be a relative minor health issue that for the most part is easily dealt with. The best data suggest that at least a quarter and perhaps one third or more of all people in the US experience GWs (you're not alone here!) and that most aren't so bummed out about them. That's not to underplay the clinical and public health importance of HPV, and the importance of taking reasonable steps for prevention, like immunization. But for most it isn't (and should not be) a very big deal.
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39 months ago
Thank you Dr. Hansfield.  I perhaps should only speak for myself regarding my "shock." 

 My final response and follow up before this question is closed is as follows:  in regards to clearance/suppression of HPV is there any data/studies to show that a person who is symptomatic (visible GW) with HPV 6/11 has more difficulty clearing the virus  than a person that is asymptomatic with no GW when contracting HPV 6/11 ?  I am assuming there is no way to tell due to lack of testing for an asymptomatic person but I would like your best guess based on your expertise. 

Thank you again in advance for your time and substantive, thoughtful responses. 
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H. Hunter Handsfield, MD
39 months ago
I am unaware of such data in regard to GW. In women with cervical Infection, HPV 6/11 and other low-risk types become undetectable sooner than high-risk ones (~12 vs 24 months). Most people probably can consider themselves virus free ~6 months after treated warts have cleared up.

Thanks for the thanks. I'm glad to have helped:  that's why we're here.
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