[Question #8994] Genital to oral auto inocculation via fingers
37 months ago
|
I am one of the unlucky 10% of women with what looks like a persistent HR HPV strain that gets picked up every pap but which - mercifully - does not seem to have caused any serious issues in the ten or so years I’ve been its home :)
I’m not worried about my cervix - I go for all the checks and trust the docs - but have become a bit worried about oral infection following what feels like quite a bit of media coverage on the topic recently. I can see this is one that has come up a bit here, I suspect because of the media and because it is harder to give absolutes and anxiety loves a bit of uncertainty. If it’s ok I’d like to just summarise what I think I’ve gleaned from your posts to date and check it’s on the money. So…
1. We’re close to sure HR HPV is only spread through intimate sexual contact involving mucosal membranes, a degree of prolonged contact and some element of friction allowing a break in the membrane for the virus to get in.
2. Plenty of folks might have detectable HPV on their fingers from touching themselves bathing or masturbating but if the virus could be transmitted via fingers readily we would see it spread amongst people who lived together, worked together etc which we don’t.
3. As for the risk of spreading from one’s own genitals to mouth - I felt for the lady posting recently on this - we can’t say never because you cant prove a negative in science and it isn't absolutely impossible but as fingers are not mucal (sp? Sorry!) membranes, HPV is not spread via genital secretions, absent minded touching of mouth etc is unlikely to involve prolonged exposure or friction causing damage to the inside of your mouth, you’d be unlucky to the point of this not being a risk worth rationally considering. The primary mode of oral transmission on the evidence available seems likely to be oral on genital sex.
Does that sound right? Forgive me putting words into your mouth just keen to make sure I’ve got it. Thank you.
![]() |
Edward W. Hook M.D.
37 months ago
|
Welcome to our Forum and thanks for your questions. As you know from reading other posts, these are challenging questions to answer and data are in short supply. I'll do my best to help. I congratulate you as well on your mature and appropriate attitude towards your persistent HR HPV infection- working with your doctor for regular check ups is the best and appropriate way to manage this problem. As for your specific question:
1. There are few, if any absolutes in medicine and science however for all practical purposes, HPV 9both HR and LR) are not transmitted through casual contact or through indirect contact on towels, toilet seats or in the context of masturbation, mutual or otherwise. DIRECT contact, often potentiated by friction/microabrasion is the basis for transmission.
2, Agree- see above.
3. Correct again. Just to provide context, in a recent publication reporting data from a national study oral HPV was far less common (less than 2%) in women 18-59 than genital infections. Rates were also lower in women than men, reflecting the effect of HPV vaccination in markedly reducing HPV infections, both at oral and genital sites. Even in unvaccinated persons however, oral HPV was much, much less common than in genital infections (oral HPV was present in only 3.3% of the many women studied).
I hope this information is reassuring. EWH
---
37 months ago
|
Thank you doctor, this helps a lot.
Reading over the previous answers where it is acknowledged that some folks do have oral infection without having given oral sex, the only plausible option left being auto inocculation, might it be fair to speculate such cases might involve:
1. A pretty unusual set of circumstances eg a cut in the mouth was inadvertently rubbed more than fleetingly with a finger that had very recently also rubbed an infected site… getting into counting angels dancing on a pin territory I know but just want to confirm a narrative thread in my mind clear that allows for the points where experts here have said “it is not impossible” and also retains that “neither is being struck by lightning and so remember nate silver’s points on data (ive seen him referenced here and love him!) and dont mistake “could happen” for “anything more than vanishingly likely””
2. As I think your colleague Dr HHH elsewhere said sometimes people are unable to speak openly about their sex lives for hosts of reasons so keeping this space open makes conversations easier. I have no idea if my late mother ever gave oral sex but am confident that any fears of a possible discussion on the subject with her doctor would have kept her well away from accessing care so can see how this might well be a valid point.
![]() |
Edward W. Hook M.D.
37 months ago
|
If autoinoculation leads to acquisition of HPV it is a very, very rare event. For better or worse, some individuals are not forthright when asked about a history of oral sex. For instnace, about 20% of persons with oral gonorrhea deny oral sex. Regarding your follow-up points:
1. As I've already said, we can never say never. OTOH, speculation about scenarios in which a very rare event might occur are typically non-productive. Indeed we too enjoy Nate Silver's comments and agree with your point.
2. Good point
Thank you. EWH
---
37 months ago
|
Thank you so much. Final supplementary if I may.
My doctor is dismissive of the reliability of oral HPV tests and i suspect this feed my anxiety as it feels like there is no way to reliably check my status. He maintains that even if I had or have an oral infection the chance of a cancer developing remains below 1% but my mind remains uneasy.
In the past 20 years I have only given one man oral sex, my husband. I think it most likely I contracted HPV from him but did also give oral sex to four other men, two of whom were pretty promiscuous in my late teens and early twenties.
Is it still fair / accurate to say that
1. if I did pick up an infection at any of these stages my youthful immune system most likely cleared them not long after the time (the more promiscuous men were one tim events and the other two men much less experienced long term boyfriends)
2. Even if I have picked up the same HR HPV orally from my now husband that I have cervically, the fact it remains cervically doesnt meant I havent cleared it orally.
3. Overall my risk for oral cancers remains low.
It is definitely the unknowable element combined with the shock of discovering a previously unknown problem later in life, potentially stemming from behaviours that feel a lifetime ago within a faithful, decades long marriage that I think make me uneasy and upset so forgive me labouring this, I really just want to calm my heart and thank you.
![]() |
Edward W. Hook M.D.
37 months ago
|
I really think you are overthinking this a great deal. There is little benefit to "what if" questions. Trust yourself and your dentist to be on the lookout for any abnormality. Regarding your follow-ups:
1. Yes, this statement is correct
2. Correct as well
3. Your risk for orally cancer is miniscule (i.e. lower than "low")
Please do your best not to worry. If that proves challenging, I urge you to talk things through with a trained counselor. Feel free to share this exchange if it is helpful
As you know, we provide up to three responses to each client's questions. This is my 3rd response. Thus this thread will be closed without further responses. Take care. Please don't worry. EWH
---