[Question #952] I can't believe I've done it again!

50 months ago
Dr. Handsfield, please forgive my even bothering you about this, but I'm losing my mind again and need your help.  Yesterday I engaged in several activities with another man of  unknown status.  I know how stupid it was not to ask and given my anxiety over the last time I did this, I can't believe I didn't ask, nor can I believe I did anything again.  The risk exposures were as follows:  he was naked entire time, and I was clothed. I rubbed him all over, deep massage, rubbed his nipples, legs, buttocks, ran my hands in between his butt crack, etc.  I never fingered his butt.  I initially only rubbed his testicles, but soon began masturbating him.  (I had pulled my penis out of my pants, and I did rub it against his naked body.)  While masturbating him, I felt quite a bit of precum,  and it was all over my hand.  I don't know if I had cuts or sores.  I went to bathroom and washed that off.  I returned and fully clothed, I straddled him and continued back massage.  He began dry humping me( I was till clothed).  I began to precum, and it leaked through my underwear and pants.  At some point during all of this, I'm sure that after masturbating him, I touched my own penis.  Worried sick about any possible risks here.  I'm praying that you'll give me the help I need here.  I also pray that your answer is what I think it's going to be, but I'm worried that maybe somewhere in all that we did, there was an exposure risk.  I'm also wondering if I need PEP???  I started to go to ER and ask for it, but after reading many of your responses, I thought I'd wait and see if these incidents warrant that.  Wondering if I need testing, early detection or otherwise too.  You're a saint for all that you do for nutjobs like me, and I thank you in advance for your help.
Edward W. Hook M.D.
Edward W. Hook M.D.
50 months ago

Welcome back to our Forum.  As you probably know, Dr. Handsfield and I answer questions interchangeably and today I happened to pick up your question.  FYI, Dr. Handsfield and I have worked together for more than three decades and while our verbal styles vary, our answers virtually always have the same content. 

Before I provide the details, let me give you the bottom line- all of the activities you describe are zero risk events for HIV.  PEP would be a waste of time and energy for you.  You are less likely to have gotten HIV from the activities that you describe than you are to be struck by lightening.  Now for the facts and details:

1.  You do not know that your partner had HIV.  Statistically odds are he did not.

2.  HIV is NEVER transmitted through clothing, even when that clothing gets wet with genital secretions.  There are NO cases of reported HIV transmission with mutual masturbation.

3.  HIV is never transmitted through mutual masturbation, even thought it is usual for persons engaged in mutual masturbation to get each others genital secretions on one another.  There are NO cases of reported HIV transmission with mutual masturbation. 

Everything you describe is zero risk.  There is no need for concern, no need for testing and PEP would be a mistake.  I hope these comments are helpful to you.  EWH

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50 months ago

Dr Hook, thank you for your prompt and helpful reply.  I know that you and Dr. Handsfield both answer these questions.  I just addressed mine to him since he  had answered me last time.  I think of you both as saints, truthfully, and I honestly thank God daily that you two are there doing what you do for people like me.  Just a few follow-up concerns, even though I think I know the answer to these also...

The precum on my hand belonged to the other man, not me.  As stated, it was quite a bit, and even though I washed it off, I'm fairly certain at some point, that may have come into contact with my penis.  This was a random hook-up, and while I know it's stupid, it happened.  I don't know the man at all, but I'm just assuming he's positive.

The dry humping was when I was straddling him with clothes on, and he was naked.  He was humping his butt up and down against my clothed penis/crotch area. 

I'm trying my best to cover any and all possible exposures from yesterday.  He never touched me in any way, shape, or form, but as stated, I had my hands all over him and all over his body.  Again, heavy precum all over my hand at a couple of points. 

Would there be ANY possible exposure from any of this?  I know you've already answered, so please don't get mad at my asking the same things again.  I'm in a bad state here, and I'm convinced I'm the one person who is going to be infected this way.

This is my most important concern, and I meant to put in the original posting.  Is it COMPLETELY safe to have unprotected sex with my wife?  Since this occurred yesterday, if I were exposed, wouldn't I be most infectious now???  Again, don't want to take ANY chances with her, of course.  And, yes, I definitely should've thought of that beforehand, but unfortunately, I didn't.

Hopefully, I've learned my "lesson" from this experience and will never do it again.  However, just out of curiosity, would it always be safe to engage in these types of activities regardless of a person's status?  Is it also safe to mutually masturbate and use the semen as lube?  Again...not going to do it - just wondering.

The reason I asked about PEP is because an online testing site, which I have used before, recommended PEP for any possible exposure.  I'm fairly certain that the reason you're telling me it's a waste, as is testing, is because this truly was a non-risk exposure.  Again, forgive my repetitiveness, and thanks for your invaluable help.

Edward W. Hook M.D.
Edward W. Hook M.D.
50 months ago

Glenn:  As you point out, your questions are a bit repetitive.  The answers will no change.

It is typical for persons engaged in mutual masturbation to get each others secretion (both pre-ejaculate and ejaculate) on one another still no risk and quantity is irrelevant.  This is the case whether your partner's secretions get on your hands, your genitals, or elsewhere on your body.  Without unprotected penetration there is no risk - zero!

Despite the events you describe, you are completely safe to go and have unprotected sex with your wife.   "What if" questions about "if you had become infected" are irrelevant.

Finally, as far as the PEP questions are concerned, remember that from a business perspective it is good to encourage people to use PEP, and in such settings people are likely to argue that it is better to be safe than sorry.  this however does not consider cost, side effects or perhaps most importantly for person such as yourself, prolongation of anxiety.  All that you describe are no risk activities.  EWH



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50 months ago
I cannot thank you enough.  Just a couple more anxiety-driven thoughts/questions...so, if I came to you as your patient, (and I don't mean to sound as if  you'd tell me anything differently in person - this is just for peace of mind) told you exactly what I've told you and asked for PEP, you would refuse to give it to me?  I've read that basically, if I even went to a Dr or ER or wherever and told them what had happened, they'd refuse to give PEP, and that, of course, makes me feel better.  Also, aside from peace of mind for me, would you again state that there is absolutely NO need for any tests of any kind, and that HIV is out of the question?  If I did test, would a 4th generation at 4 weeks prove conclusively that I did not get HIV?  (is there a chance of false positives from those?) I know I'm repeating, and I beg you again not to get impatient with me.  If you were me, you would not worry about PEP, exposure, and you wouldn't have ANY hesitation about unprotected sex with spouse?  Lastly, just to hear it one more time, no testing is necessary and there's no chance I've contracted HIV from this experience? 
Edward W. Hook M.D.
Edward W. Hook M.D.
50 months ago

As you know, we provide up to three responses to questions.  This will be my third response, with each response saying essentially the same thing.  the activities you describe did not put you at risk for HIV.  there is no need for concern, no need for testing and no need for PEP.  Had you come to me as a patient with this story, I would not prescribe PEP for you because you do not need it and to prescribe it for you would expose you to side effects, unnecessary costs and unnecessary prolongation of your anxiety.  For those same reason, I would tell you there is no reason for you to be concerned that you put your wife at risk for HIV as a result of the activities you have described.  You are in the clear.


This will end this thread.  There will be no more responses and the thread will be closed later this evening.  Take care.  EWH

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