[Question #9665] Frottage and HIV Risk

30 months ago

Hello,

On the 26th of January, I met a girl. We made out and we were lying on top of each other without clothes. We might have rubbed each others genitals at that time but there was no penetration since I did not have a condom. Would there be an HIV risk if her vaginal fluids were on my penis at the time of rubbing? I am not circumcised as we speak. There was fingering but.

On 27th of January, I met another girl. It was the same thing. We made out and rubbed each others genitals. But there was no penetration as such. At least what I know of. Is it a risk if her vaginal fluids come on my penis while rubbing? I did wash it both the times after the encounters. This girl had visible marks on her body. She said she had psoriasis. But I'm not really sure. There was breast sucking. Would there be an HIV risk if there was a sore on her nipples or something? Since she had marks on her. I'm not really sure if she had any on her breasts but I am just asking in general. If she had a sore and if I had a cut inside my mouth. That's a big IF... Would there be a risk?

From 3rd of February, I started having flu like symptoms like throat pain, multiple joint pain, muscle pain, nausea, headache, no appetite. Did my encounters bring up any HIV Risks? Or risks for any other STD? I do not have any lesions on my penis or mouth yet. I did my CBC Test with differential WBC Count and it appeared pretty normal. But I feel like my joints are having inflammation for some reason. Same with my muscles. Can the CBC appear normal when you have symptoms for HIV or any other STDs? I have been feeling sick ever since. I do not have any chancers or marks on my body yet either. I know fingering brings up no risk for HIV. But I am not sure about the frottage part. Can HIV exist outside? Like does it die when it comes in contact with air?

Edward W. Hook M.D.

30 months ago

Welcome to the Forum. Thanks for your questions. I'll be glad to comment. It appears that you are working to practice safe sex and if so, I congratulate you. HIV and other STIs are harder to transmit than many people believe. HIV is transmitted ONLY by penetrative sexual activity and masturbation, including frottage, are safe activities as well. Contact of a partner's genital secretions with your skin, including genital skin during such activities does not represent a risk for HIV or other STIs. This is true even if you have cuts or scrapes on the skin which contacts the genital sections. Similarly, in adults no STIs are transmitted through contact of the mouth with a partner's breast. Each of the activities you describe are safe activities with no risk for HIV or other STIs and no need for testing. I would not worry about the activities you describe

Your illness on February 3rd is what we call a "flu-like" illness. This sort symptoms are included in a febrile syndrome called the Acute Retroviral Syndrome (ARS) which can be due to recently acquired HIV (high fever and severe sore throat are essential parts of the ARS however). Other familiar illnesses which can lead to the same symptoms include COVID-19 and influenza, as well as a long list of less easily recognized viruses. In studies of at risk persons who experience flu-like symptoms, fewer than 1% of them have the ARS. I suspect you have some sort of non-STI, viral syndrome as the cause of your symptoms.

Indeed, HIV does quickly become non-infectious when it is in contact with the environment.

I hope the information I have provided is helpful to you. Please don't worry. EWH

---

30 months ago

Thank you for taking time to reply Dr. Hook. I did have unprotected vaginal sex around December now to think of it. But at that time it was with my partner. That was the first and the only time I had unprotected sex. Her last test was around March of last year which was negative. She had three partners after that. Two of who she had unprotected sex with. The first guy she had unprotected sex with said He was and is currently clean. I'm not sure if he's telling the truth. The other one had his visa renewal around October where they automatically test for HIV. So he turned negative too. Can my symptoms be ARS related? I haven't noticed any Fever or Rashes yet. I feel like I have swollen lymph nodes which I have to get examined by the doctor. I have pain around my hips and groin as well. But even with these symptoms, my CBC looked normal. No high or low lymphocytes or anything. Can I get HIV from this exposure? The exposure did last for some time which is why I had to ask. The headaches are quite terrible. Do I need to get tested? Or should I ignore the test if its a low risk exposure?

Edward W. Hook M.D.

30 months ago

Thanks for the additional information. These do not change my assessment. The ARS typically occurs 1-3 weeks following an encounter and virtually never occurs more than 30 days after exposure. Thus your recent illness is outside of this window.

Swollen lymph nodes are non-specific and most people can find them is they look hard enough

I really think you are overthinking this but, regarding testing, if any of these symptoms were due to HIV you would have a positive 4th generation, combination HIV antigen antibody test. Given your level of concern, it might be worthwhile to test but ONLY if you can commit to accepting the test results and moving on from there. I am confident that if you test, your test will be negative, proving that none of the symptoms you list are due to HIV. EWH

---

30 months ago

Thank you for the reply Dr. Cook. I guess it did start after 30days. My unprotected exposure was around 23rd or 24th of December. I got sick with the same symptoms after the 3rd or 4th day from the exposure and fever as well. Can those be ARS Related? Felt better only after a week. Regardless, I will get tested right away. Maybe the negative results would put my mind at ease. My headaches are getting worse. It has gone at the back of my head. Going down till my neck. Now both my neck and head hurts and are stiff. Bending is getting difficult as well. Along with the sore throat, joint aches etc. I'm starting to get chest pains too. Can mononucleosis cause these? I had mono in 2021 which made be quite sick for a while. I also got chronic fatigue syndrome after that.

Edward W. Hook M.D.

30 months ago

As you know- we provide up to three responses to each client's questions. Following my response the thread will be closed and you should not need to return to the site.

You are seriously overthinking this. Mononucleosis is a viral illness, like many of the other viruses mentioned above. The reason I suggested testing is because it is increasingly clear that you are having trouble moving forward from your concerns about HIV. While I am confident that you do not have HIV, the person who needs to be convinced is you. EWH

---