[Question #9859] Syphilis after handjob and testing accuracy for couple situation

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28 months ago
Im m, 37, and married. My wife told me back in mid-September 2022 that she was pregnant(w3). I received two hand jobs at a massage clinic in Denmark in same period or just before she told. The clinic is as I understand only providing hand to genital. Fully dressed. Also, fingers were around my anus area “entrance”. My concern especially goes around Syphilis as my wife is pregnant. But, as I read, any risk of syphilis can have fatal consequences. I know that hand to genital is very, very low risk, but still the fact that extremely low risk still exists concerns me. I did a test  9 Jan 23. Name of test was: INSTI Multiplex HIV-1 / HIV-2 / Syphilis Antibody Test. And a full blood/urin test from my own doctor 16 Jan 23. This showed also negative for all stds. Two things triggers my fear: I have been having what the doctor think is dermatitis behind my penis head from December until now (on and off). Red area with some inching and dryness (same spot). Secondly my wife is having a red spot on her belly that freaked me out, but doctors say its most likely 1 cherry angioma. But could this be a syphilis chancra on the stomach? And thus, I can’t let go despite doctors saying it is most likely not! The reason why my 2 negative tests don’t provide me with 100% comfort also leads to my question. 1) There could be a false negative outcome of my two tests?. 2) Could there be a case of me having “self-curred” the bacteria/syphilis over the 4 month without medicine, and thus testing negative for anti-bodies - despite being positive during and earlier stage and thus having transmitted to my wife?. 3) Can you be a “passive carrier” of syphilis without showing anti-bodies in testing? Still infecting my wife. Can I trust the testing 100% and thus no risk for here?
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28 months ago
Also there was a hand to penis event in july 2022. Same scenario. This is all exposure. 
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28 months ago
My wife was tested negative in october for all STDs in screening. 
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28 months ago
And 6 events in 2021. Same place and only hand to penis - handjob. Always fully dressed masseuse. The events from the past is hunting me despite my testing. Could my body have self-curred me and therefore negative testing. But wife infected just after/post her testing in october 2022 - she had public screening for all stds and negative.
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H. Hunter Handsfield, MD
28 months ago
Welcome to the forum. I'm happy to address these concerns.

There is no possibility you caught syphilis or that either you or your wife has it, or that  -- which I suspect you already know, intellectually if not at a gut level. First, syphilis is not transmissible by hand-genital contact, or so rarely it can be ignored. Second, the rash you describe doesn't hint at syphilis; the rash of secondary syphilis is body-wide. Third, your and your wife's negative blood tests prove neither of you is infected and never have been. (Your wife also was tested during her pregnancy -- all pregnant women are tested automatically. If that was at least a few weeks after your massage events, that negative result also was valid.) And a single "red spot" on the skin cannot be syphilis.

To your specific questions:  1) There is no possibility that the standard syphilis blood tests miss any infection more than a few weeks in duration. 2) The immune system cannot self-cure syphilis in the first year after being exposed; and if somehow that happened, your blood tests would remain positive. 3) There is no such thing as being an asymptomatic "carrier" of syphilis without positive blood test.

So your doctors are right; all is well. There is no reason at all for you to remain concerned about syphilis. Let me know if anything isn't clear. Best wishes to you, your wife and your baby.

HHH, MD
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28 months ago
Thanks doc. So there is not an scenario where i get syphilis in period of lets say 2020-2022, but not transmits it to my wife before post her testing in October 2022 (you are right she was tested negative). And then im self-curred in the period after her(my wifes) testing and thus the 2 test im performing january 2023 is both negative? Of course unlucky timing but could this "cross- testing scenario happen"? And if not why?  (we have sex 4-6 times per month) And could the small red spot on her stomach be primary syphilis cancra og secondary single rash only (Last questions). And thank you for the support!!
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H. Hunter Handsfield, MD
28 months ago
No, there is no such scenario. "And if not why?" Because it would have to involved several almost zero risk events all coming true. Most massage workers do not have HIV -- in your country, I would say the chance she had HIV was under one in a thousand. Then add one chance in say 100,000 it was transmitted by hand-genital contact, which has never been known to happen. Then the possibility your tests missed syphilis maybe one in a thousand. Then the possibility you infected your wife but her tests also remained positive -- let's guess one chance in a thousand. Statistically, this puts the possibility that your wife had syphilis, and could have passed the infection to the baby at 0.001 x 0.00001 x 0.001 x 0.001 = 0.00000000001 (if I've correctly counted the zeros). That's one chance in 100 billion. And even this is on the high side, since most of those numerical estimates probably are too high.

That's zero.

Thanks for the thanks, but let's not go further. There is no possibility that any additional thoughts that could come to your mind would possibly change my evaluation and advice. No syphilis here:  believe it!
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28 months ago
Got it. And for this question: And could the small red spot in the middle on her stomach be primary syphilis cancra og secondary single rash only.
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H. Hunter Handsfield, MD
28 months ago
Oh come on. What exactly did you not understand with "There is no possibility that any additional thoughts that could come to your mind would possibly change my evaluation and advice"?

If you don't have syphilis, how could your wife??? And there is no way such a red spot is syphilis of any stage.

That completes the two follow-up exchanges included with each question and so ends this thread. If you continue to have any further thoughts about syphilis, carefully re-read all my comments above. No matter what, do not start a new thread with any further questions about this situation. Thank you. I do hope the discussion has been helpful. Best wishes. 
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