[Question #9867] Unprotected Frottage & Oral Sex(receiving)

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28 months ago
Hi Doctors,

Thank you for the service you're providing. I am a 36M in the USA who had a unprotected frottage, no insertion (<30 Secs) and a blowjob (<5 seconds) with a white 30F(Non Sex worker) in a bar bathroom in early March. 1 week later I began having lower backpain, stiff neck and headpressure.  Today, I do not have backpain, however I still have the constant headpressure and stiff neck, which my PCP and Chiropractor has said that it was due to stress.  Test Taken:

Chlamydia, Gonorrhea and UTI Urinalysis - 5 Days Post Exposure(DPE)
Full STD Panel(Quest Diagnostic) - 10 DPE
HIV RNA Test - 12 DPE
HIV Finger Prick - 15 DPE
HIV RNA Test & 4th gen combo p24 test - 23 DPE
Syphillis RPR Test - 24 DPE
Chlamydia, Gonorrhea, Trich and UTI Urinalysis - 30 DPE

All non-reactive/negative

2 Days ago, I ran into the same woman at a different bar, we have mutual friends and she said she was clean, so with heavy drinking I ended up in another bar bathroom.  She gave me a blowjob until I completed in her mouth (<2 mins).  Immediately afterwards, I peed and washed my Penis with handsoap and warm water from the sink. I did not kiss or get anywhere close to her vagina. I read on your previous posts that frottage and receiving oral sex is low to no risk.

When is the earliest I can take a Chlamydia & Gonorrhea test?

When is the earliest I can take a Syphilis test? Can I take a RPR and VDRL test at the same time to rule out?

5 days ago I started on Amoxicillin & Clarithromycin for H. Pylori will this affect any new tests?

Is it safe to say I don't have HIV?  I haven't taken a test since the last encounter 2 days ago.  Thank you for your time.

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Edward W. Hook M.D.
28 months ago
Welcome to the Forum.  thanks for your confidence in our service.  I'll be glad to comment, starting with some generalities about your exposures and then I'll address your specific questions.  If any part of my answer is unclear you may follow up with up to two follow-up questions in the next 30 days.

The encounter you describe did not put you at any risk for HIV and at minimal risk for STIs- your tests prove this.  Frottage is considered safe sex despite the fact that it is typical for persons engaging in frottage to be exposed to partners' genital secretions.  Amongst penetrative sex acts, receipt of oral sex is amongst the lowest risk types of encounter. There has never been a proven case of HIV acquired from receipt of oral sex.  The STI most often acquired from receipt of oral sex is gonorrhea and that is relatively uncommon since most people do not have STIs, since when they do throat infections are less common than genital infections, and since most exposures to person with infection do not lead to infection in the exposed person.  Further, your partner stated that she did nt have STIs although her behavior with you, and presumably others suggests that she may be at risk and STIs can be asymptomatic.   Regarding your specific questions:

When is the earliest I can take a Chlamydia & Gonorrhea test?
Tests for gonorrhea and chlamydia will provide accurate results any time more than 4-5 days after an exposure.  FYI, for reasons that are not well understood, chlamydia does not seem to "like" to infect the throat and thus chlamydial throat infections, as well as getting chlamydial from receipt of oral sex is very, very rare.  Testing of course, will not hurt and may be reassuring.

When is the earliest I can take a Syphilis test? Can I take a RPR and VDRL test at the same time to rule out?
Most experts agree that in the absence of possible lesions, testing for syphilis will be conclusive about 6 weeks after an exposure.  FYI, syphilis is relatively rare in heterosexual women (and men) as >2/3rds of syphilis currently occurs in men who have other men as sex partners.  Testing by both RPR and VDRL is redundant- ne is sufficient.  Most experts currently screen for syphilis with an RPR test.

5 days ago I started on Amoxicillin & Clarithromycin for H. Pylori will this affect any new tests?
Yes, tests drugs will certainly eliminate any risk for syphilis (thus no testing in needed) and further lower you already low risk for both gonorrhea and chlamydia.  Although these drugs are not recommended for gonorrhea or syphilis, they have activity against some strains of each disease.  

Is it safe to say I don't have HIV?  I haven't taken a test since the last encounter 2 days ago.
Yes.  No need for HIV testing at all following the encounters you describe.

I hope that these comments are helpful.  EWH
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28 months ago
Hi Dr. Hook,

Thank you for the response. To follow up on my 1st encounter, which was the frottage and quick oral; 7 days post exposure, I became really fatigued and I began having this tension headache that will not leave. It has been over 30 days with this constant headache, which isn’t painful, just head pressure. 

If I had syphilis and/or HIV symptoms, would the RPR, HIV RNA and 4th gen test catch the issue, since I am having symptoms?  I took the RPR day 24 and the RNA on Day 12 and 23. The 4th gen on 10th and 23rd day as well. 

Also, does a Chancre always appear where the syphilis entered or can it appear elsewhere or not at all? It has been 35 days post exposure and I of course have been self examining my Penis daily looking for Chancre, since that is the only place touched during the encounter. 

Also, should I be worried about HCV at all from both encounters? 

I appreciate your responses and the service you have been providing, also, going through previous questions/answers on your forum is helpful.
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Edward W. Hook M.D.
28 months ago
Thanks for the additional information.  Fatigue and headache are non-specific symptoms which may be caused by many problems.  If they were due to syphilis or HIV, tests would be positive a day or two after the onset of symptoms and stay positive.  If you have negative tests, your headache and fatigue are not due to these infection.  OTOH, these are common symptoms of anxiety.  

Some persons who acquire syphilis may not notice their chancre- chancres tend to be painless.  Chancres occur at the site of contact, not in other parts of the body. If by now you have not noted a chancre at the site of exposure, you will not.  On average chancres appear about three weeks following contact at the site of contact.

No, hepatitis C is only an STI for persons participating in receptive rectal intercourse and even then it is rare.  I would have no concerns whatsoever about Hepatitis C
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28 months ago
Hi Dr. Hook,

Last follow up, took another std panel today, 38 days post exposure.

Follow up questions:

1. I am not having any symptoms, but would chlamydia, which you told me was highly unlikely from receiving a blowjob and/ or Gonorrhea show in a std urine test post 5 days?  I also took a urinalysis with UTI culture, would this help find an issue post 5 days?

2. I know the guideline for HIV is 45 days, but I took it a week short, will this matter?  I have taken an Qualitative RNA at Day 12 and 23, finger prick Day 10, 15 & 22 and 4th gen day 10, 23(Did both rna and 4th gen same time same day) and now day 38.

3. My main concern is syphilis, I have went down the rabbit hole about neurosyphilis or chancre sore being in one's mouth or anus.  I have had two RPR tests, one at day 10 and day 24.  Have you encountered neurosyphilis before and if you can elaborate a little about it?  Also, would a chancre be formed elsewhere even though the only contact was on my penis, no kissing or anal play?  Also, at 38 days would you consider that kind of conclusive, this will be my third RPR test?

4. I have had head pressure and some fatigue since day 7 post exposure. Today being day 38, I have felt some relief from the head pressure for the 1st time, which instead of making me feel better, filled me with anxiety, hence me taking another std panel today.  To just double down on your previous answer, if my symptoms were due to an STD (Syphilis,HIV) the test I took would find it atleast 1-2 after my symptoms began?  Is this because the body is creating antibodies to fight off the infection?

Thank you for your time and the affordability of your service.  Also, the education you provided just by the answers on your forum.  Just as I scoured over the forum for answers, I hope my post helps others as well.
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Edward W. Hook M.D.
28 months ago
As you know, we provide up to three responses to each client's questions. This is my 3rd and therefore final response, after which the thread will be closed.  Many of these questions are repetitive and have been answered above.  

I am entirely confident that your STI panel today will be negative. I hope that at that time you will be able to move forward from the anxiety you have displayed.  On to your questions:

1. I am not having any symptoms, but would chlamydia, which you told me was highly unlikely from receiving a blowjob and/ or Gonorrhea show in a std urine test post 5 days?  I also took a urinalysis with UTI culture, would this help find an issue post 5 days?

As I said in my initial response- "Tests for gonorrhea and chlamydia will provide accurate results any time more than 4-5 days after an exposure."  You have proven you do not have gonorrhea or chlamydial and will prove it again with todays tests.

2. I know the guideline for HIV is 45 days, but I took it a week short, will this matter?  I have taken an Qualitative RNA at Day 12 and 23, finger prick Day 10, 15 & 22 and 4th gen day 10, 23(Did both rna and 4th gen same time same day) and now day 38.

I told you in my initial response you did not have HIV,  I also noted " No need for HIV testing at all following the encounters you describe."  The testing you have already taken is entirley conclusive, as will be your tests from today.  This will prove once again that you did not get HIV from the encounter you described.

3. My main concern is syphilis, I have went down the rabbit hole about neurosyphilis or chancre sore being in one's mouth or anus.  I have had two RPR tests, one at day 10 and day 24.  Have you encountered neurosyphilis before and if you can elaborate a little about it?  Also, would a chancre be formed elsewhere even though the only contact was on my penis, no kissing or anal play?  Also, at 38 days would you consider that kind of conclusive, this will be my third RPR test?

Syphilis is not a concern.  As I told you in my initial response (with typos corrected) when you told me you were taking amoxicillin and clarithromycin- "...drugs will certainly eliminate any risk for syphilis (thus no testing in needed) and further lower you already low risk for both gonorrhea and chlamydia.  Although these drugs are not recommended for gonorrhea or syphilis, they have activity against some strains of each disease."  I am an expert on neurosyphilis- you do not have it and the medications you have taken have eliminated any theoretical risk you might have had for syphilis.

4. I have had head pressure and some fatigue since day 7 post exposure. Today being day 38, I have felt some relief from the head pressure for the 1st time, which instead of making me feel better, filled me with anxiety, hence me taking another std panel today.  To just double down on your previous answer, if my symptoms were due to an STD (Syphilis,HIV) the test I took would find it atleast 1-2 after my symptoms began?  Is this because the body is creating antibodies to fight off the infection?

You do not have any of the STIs youmention or have tested for.  I suspect your headache related to tension, as does your fatige.

Please believe the negative test results you will get from your tests, then put your fears aside and move forward.  This completes this thread.  EWH
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27 months ago
Dr. Hook, thank you for your time, results from my previous 7 std panel test at Day 38 came back all normal/non-reactive.  My headache has gone away after 2 days of getting the results.  I am surprised I was able to have headaches for over 30 days nonstop due to stress/anxiety.  Again, thank you.
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Edward W. Hook M.D.
27 months ago
Thanks so much for your follow up. I am delighted to hear that your headaches have resolved, and, as you might expect, in no way, surprised that your tests are negative. 

I hope that over the course of this challenging time for you the responses I provided were helpful. as you know, this is the final response to this thread, which will now be closed. Take care. EWH. 
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